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Missile Rebalance discussion thread
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=61730		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Auxilium [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Missile Rebalance discussion thread
So I'm going to be working on a rebalance for missiles as I've mentioned in the Dev Blog.

Before even looking at DPE, damage or launch time, I first want to work on the range you can launch missiles from. Currently the default is at 2000 which can be manually overwritten (this is why so many missiles, even the low tech ones, have such high range).

MicroCapacitor suggested giving them a launch range of 100*the tech level of the missile, which I personally liked. However, I'd like to hear the playerbase's opinion about this as well so please let me know what you guys think of this idea :)

Update 07/04/'16:
Planning on removing class skills affecting Missiles by 1/3rd. Missile Mastery will remain to give full bonuses to Missiles (obviously). Note that Fighters will remain to have 1/3rd of class skills benefits.

Update 13/04/'16:
Over the last 2 weeks I've been working up the new stats for the missiles.
I've gone with Churchill's suggestion of basing the maximum launch range on a tech level combined with a certain range modifier. We've got low range (such as MIRVs and Bunkerbusters), midrange (most missiles) and high range (such as Lancer and Disintegrator) missiles. The modifiers I've used are:

Launch Range=Tech level*100*Range modifier
With the range modifers being:
-Low: 0.75
-Mid: 1.0
-High: 1.75

The damage on the missiles is also scaled. Highrange missiles do approximately 25% damage less than midrange and lowrange do 25% more than midrange.
Additionally, mining missiles will do 10% damage less than their other damage type equivalents at a given tech.

The DPE has also been changed. Most missiles follow this formula: DPE=1.0+(0.1*techlevel). However, there are exceptions to this which you can find out about for yourself once they're released into the game :)
Author:  carterstrain [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
100*Launcher Tech*Short/Medium/Long range modifier

Lancer missiles historically get 5000 max range. The proposed change cuts them down to a max range of 2200. Breakaway missiles like MIRV's have too much benefit over the other mining damage missile, AP missiles.

So I'd say the vast majority of missiles would use this formula:

100*Tech*1

Short range missiles (like MIRVs) could use this formula:

100*Tech*0.6

Long range missiles (like Lancers) could use this formula:

100*Tech*1.6
Author:  Vorporal [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
In my opinion the High Turning/Tracking missiles should have a short range modifier where as slower 'On-Rails' missiles should have a greater range as standoff heavy ordinance for bombarding targets.

This makes sense intuitively (faster burn + lighter weight = low range) and from a gameplay standpoint (close range dog-fighting vs long range artillery mechanics).

I do like the carterstrain suggestion but perhaps a base range of 200-500 for different types of missile?

On an unrelated note could we have low (0-3) tech missiles brought through the AI bases as 5-10 packs? Seems logical that players be able to buy such from AI at nexus+ in the same way as drones

Vorp
Author:  ELITE [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
I think you can buy low tech missiles in Hyperion or Beta Antares.
Author:  redalert150 [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
Thats great that missiles are finally being looked into. I hope they dont get nerfed to the point that they become useless at early game, but at end game missiles definitely need a nerf, specially MIRVs. My personal opinion on how missiles should work is that they do about a third of the damage they do now and cost about a quarter of the elec they cost. This is in regards to MIRVs at least since those are the ones i see wit ridiculous dps.


Ive never thought that the range was a big issue, but i guess what church is suggesting isnt a bad idea. The higher dps missiles should have lower range, lower dps higher range makes sense.
Author:  MasterTrader [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
Please change missiles so that their focus is more on debuffs and effects and less on pure raw damage. And please don't let class damage skills affect them. Well, except for Gunner.
Author:  yclepticon [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
MasterTrader wrote:
Please change missiles so that their focus is more on debuffs and effects and less on pure raw damage. And please don't let class damage skills affect them. Well, except for Gunner.


We are more or less happy with the role missiles play as a high-DPE damage source that doesn't scale with augmenters. This project will not refocus them to different combat roles. It will only adjust the damage, range, and energy costs to conform to current balance issues. However, it is a good idea to prevent random class skills from affecting missiles, and we can definitely look into that.
Author:  MasterTrader [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
OK. Understood.

Are you rebalancing the missiles with the understanding or intent on rebalancing player damage scaling in relation to vanilla run of the mill AI? Because newer players currently use busted missiles in order to have any hope of playing the game without using slaves or drones, just about everyone tells them to do so. If they don't have the current busted missiles, they are going to need other ways to deal with content.
Author:  Chrono Warrior [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
I agree they need to be changed, several types are OP, while others seem underwhelming. I also agree that no class but Gunner should have bonuses to missile damage. On the other hand, I agree with MasterTrader, there should be something put in place to supplement the vacuum that missiles leave. It would be difficult for lower level chars who rely on missiles as their main damage output. On another note, is it intended for missiles like MIRV's to track cloaked targets like seers? I have never particularly understood why they do, but maybe I'm just daft.

- Chrono
Author:  SunDog60 [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
Chrono Warrior wrote:
On another note, is it intended for missiles like MIRV's to track cloaked targets like seers? I have never particularly understood why they do, but maybe I'm just daft.


New kind of missile, high-radar bonus missiles to fight cloaked targets with?
Author:  redalert150 [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
I like that every class can use missiles. I would love if missiles actually almost became a must or somewhat similar to slaves and drones. What if a new missile skill was added to game, similar to slave tweaking but for missiles?
Author:  MasterTrader [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
-_-

Missiles encourage game play that isn't congruent with the endgame. If you played the game using missiles until late game, you'd be woefully under prepared for what you needed to understand about how to do content.
Author:  Auxilium [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
Thank you for all the replies. First of all I'd like to point out that the missiles that already have custom ranges will likely see no big change to the range aspect. I do like your suggestion Churchill and I'll make sure to run the numbers on that.

Vorporal wrote:
In my opinion the High Turning/Tracking missiles should have a short range modifier where as slower 'On-Rails' missiles should have a greater range as standoff heavy ordinance for bombarding targets.

This makes sense intuitively (faster burn + lighter weight = low range) and from a gameplay standpoint (close range dog-fighting vs long range artillery mechanics).


As for the agility of missiles; I can definitly look into this and have some tests where longer ranged missile receive crappier engines (thus making them less agile). It does make sense when you think about it when you take fuel into account, making it more realistic, which I like.

Vorporal wrote:
On an unrelated note could we have low (0-3) tech missiles brought through the AI bases as 5-10 packs? Seems logical that players be able to buy such from AI at nexus+ in the same way as drones


I'll talk to some people. Perhaps we can make them purchasable in all AI stations.
Author:  CLXXXIII [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
pls look into the t22 missles and fighters half of them are bugged
Author:  ELITE [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Missile Rebalance discussion thread
Can we please give missiles forced thrust if they don't have it already.
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