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Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
Obviously when I say 75k dps I mean a set of 6+ acec.


Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:32 pm
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Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
In order to properly figure out what the values should be, I need some help from all of you.

I need you all to show me the DPS/HPS you get with a single drone, here are the list of drones this would be most helpful for:

Code:
Twisted Compact Charge Drone
Hybrid Kidd Drone
Mad Kidd+ Drone
Samgrahaka Bhisajvar
Twisted Extensive Charge Drone
Twisted Blaster Disaster Drone
Twisted Condemnation Drone
Lunarian Drone
Selenite Drone
Indrakoza Akramavar
Indrakoza Amzuchidvar
TBFD 9000 Drone
Twisted Leech Charge Drone
Heavy Kidd Drone
Samgrahaka Akramavar
Mad Kidd Drone
Honey Badger Drone
Twisted Blaster Drone
Solarian Drone
Captain Bling Drone
Armada Kidd Drone
Bule Mobile Blaster Drone 4
Mercurian Drone
BFD 9000 Drone


Please list the DPS/HPS you get with just a single drone, without a DPS controller or an Aura Drone. It would also greatly help if you could share the drone ops values you have along with any skills that might get passed along to your drones (Such as Might of Atlas).

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Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:14 pm
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Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
I have made more changes to drones on the test server based on feedback and deep discussion within the development team. Refer to the first post for details.

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Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:58 pm
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Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
Drone ops
Gen 139.75
Off 8
Def 4
Everlasting 0

Done using resistance/elec Controller aswell as Zeus beam no other aura or drones

Bhisaj - about 20k HPS using T 20 Trans tractor
Twisted Condemnation Drone - 20000 roughtly
Lunarian Drone - Pulse: 8500 (wont use Pulv even if straight ontop of target dummy so proly has less DPS then the pulse as a base due to being radiation damage)
TBFD 9000 Drone - Cant get accurate reading but seems to be about 17-20k DPS for 10 seconds
Twisted Leech Charge Drone - 960 DPS roughtly 2k HPS
Samgrahaka Akramavar - roughtly 6000 DPS
Mad Kidd Drone - 20k
Solarian Drone - Pulse:9k Pulv: 10k


Last edited by kelly16 on Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:40 pm
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Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
1 tesla, 1 uaoe, 1 heph gen setup. All values are with 1 single dps drone (no aura)
**All values are with sup. firing drone controller**
90.31% drone ops, 41.60% offensive drone ops (no seal skills)

Mad Kidd+ Drones - 187k-200k dps (I know you said you'd fix it just letting you know)
Mad Kidd Drones - 26-28k dps
Armada Kidd Drone - 5-6k dps (beam) 15k dps (lincin)
Twisted Blaster Disaster Drone - 17k dps
Twisted Condemnation Drone - 20k dps and banks in 20 seconds
TBFD9000 Drone - 25k dps and banks in 11 seconds
Lunarian Drone - 13k dps
Selenite Drone - 12k dps
Indrakoza Akramavar - 10k dps
Indrakoza Amzuchidvar - 8k dps and banks in 11 seconds
Samgrahaka Akramavar - 8k dps
Honey Badger Drone - 17k dps and rises over time
Twisted Blaster Drone - 15k dps and banks in 30 seconds
Captain Bling Drone - 7k dps and banks in 7 seconds
Bule Mobile Blaster Drone 4 - 12k dps and banks in 12 seconds
Mercurian Drone - 14k dps
BFD 9000 Drone - 16k dps and lasts for a minute 15 seconds
Hybrid Kidd Drone - 100k dps


Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:37 pm
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Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
2 heph gen 1 ares offensive. 1 drone and no auras active, no controllers equipped
all drones are using the wep with most dps(lincins, pulverizers etc)
+77.87% drone ops and +50.00% offensive ops

drones on the list

    Solarian Drone - 11.5k DPS
    Samgrahaka Akramavar - 6.1k DPS
    BFD 9000 - 12k DPS, banks out after ~95 seconds
    Mad Kidd Drone - 20.8k DPS, banks out after ~78 seconds(the inbuilt on it activated 2 times)
    Twisted Blaster Drone - 11k DPS, banks out after ~45 seconds
    Bule Mobile Blaster Drone 4 - 9.5k DPS, banks out after 25 seconds

not on the list

    Vervaardiger Lance Drone Mk VI - 37k DPS, shields bank out after 11 seconds, elec banks out after 74 seconds
    Chid Adiz Mardana Var - 6.3k DPS, shields bank out after 10 seconds, elec banks out after 66 seconds
    Hephaestus Drone - 4.6k DPS, banks out after 60 seconds
    Mobile MagCannon IX Drone - 3.6k DPS
    Powerful Pillbox - 7k DPS(including the superitem)


i feel like the BFD is pretty decent now. they're kinda fragile but they deal quite the damage for a t20 drone.
6k sustained mining damage on the samgrahaka. that's pretty cool.
the lance drone looks OP but only in extremely close quarters. add in the fact that it's pretty squishy and i'd say its in a decent spot.



EDIT: my two cents on some of the recent changes

MasterTrader wrote:

EDIT v2: I have made a third set of changes! Here is what is different:

  • Transference Facilitator Beam (Tech 5 to Tech 20) has been buffed to give Transference Vulnerability +66%-+100%, and the electricity costs have been drastically increased. This means that any target affected by this tractor beam will take increased healing. This also means that an Engineer paired with a Shield Monkey gives more total healing on an affected target than 2 Shield Monkeys or 2 Engineers.

doesn't this also mean another engineer can heal the beam target via drones for more?

MasterTrader wrote:
  • All player acquirable drones now have rarity colors!

  • nice

    MasterTrader wrote:
  • One drone (The TBFD9000) requires 10x the electricity to charge and deploy (120000 elec total), otherwise it wouldn't do anywhere near the old amount of DPS according to the sheet. Give me your thoughts on this after playing with it.

  • Dude6 wrote:
    TBFD9000 Drone - 25k dps and banks in 11 seconds

    maybe uhh... make it last for more than a minute?
    120k elec for a single deployment sounds pretty extreme. its gonna take an eternity for an engineer to deploy a full set of those things





    this has been bothering me for a while. let me quote something from the blog post:
    Quote:
    It is apparent that there are many drones that are powerful and sought after by the playerbase. This is good, and we don’t want to make these drones useless. Even so, we have to acknowledge that it isn’t good for the overall health of the game to have certain drones far and away outperform other drones. As such, these changes will affect both under performing drones and over performing drones.

    Quote:
    The overarching plan is to make drones that are not very useful, even more useful.


    at the moment this whole thing just looks like a huge nerf to most of the end-game drones. if this change is truly about "making drones not very useful, even more useful" -- then i suggest looking into these drones a little more:

    Dude6 wrote:
    Captain Bling Drone - 7k dps and banks in 7 seconds

    this thing is unscoopable. 7k dps and 7 seconds for a one-time drone is very underwhelming.

    Zerendalus wrote:
    Chid Adiz Mardana Var - 6.3k DPS, shields bank out after 10 seconds, elec banks out after 66 seconds

    elec is great compared to live stats atm but as i addressed in my previous post, the shield banks out way too fast. i'd prefer a lance drone over this thing at its current state.


    Zerendalus wrote:
    Hephaestus Drone - 4.6k DPS, banks out after 60 seconds

    the heph drone is tanky and has a unique aura but the DPS is moderately undesirable. maybe make it sustain or last longer, or just straight up beef the damage?



    there's still a bunch of drones to go through(especially the ones under t20) but i'll leave that for another time.


    Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:59 am
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    There's yet another set of changes coming to the test server soon, once test has been updated I'll update the first post with the recent changes.

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    Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:00 am
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    .


    You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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    Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:41 am
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    thanks for looking into 'em, here's some more feedback

    drone research 5, augs are 2 heph gen and 1 ares offensive.
    1 drone and no auras active, no controllers equipped
    all drones are using the wep with most dps(lincins, pulverizers etc)
    +77.87% drone ops and +50.00% offensive ops in total

    MasterTrader wrote:
    [*]Chid Adiz Mardana Var drones have better sustain, have their surgical resistance and physical resistance swapped, and shorter range.

    6.3k dps, shields are still banking out after 10 seconds, elec banks out after 67 seconds. the drone doesn't have any resist stats btw, swapping phys and surg resist doesn't seem affect anything

    MasterTrader wrote:
    [*]Hephaestus Drones fire half as quickly, and have larger energy banks.[/list]

    4.6k dps, elec banks out after 5 minutes or so. deals less damage compared to a mercurian/solarian drone but i'd consider it as a viable option now.
    btw, the heph drone on live deals 7k dps but banks out after 50 seconds. despite the difference in dps, i'd rather field a set of the heph drones on test. swapping out drones every time they bank out is kinda tedious. if sacrificing some DPS gets rid of that chore then i'm all for it


    Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:09 am
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    Markoz wrote:
    .


    I'm not interested in anything that doesn't have to do with drones, any of those other issues are specific to test server or are code things. Don't post those here please.

    Please post your setup when you post feedback about drones, individual performance with drones is heavily predicated on the setup. Once you do so I can evaluate whether or not the Twisted Blaster drones have too much electricity, though I assume you still have more Everlasting Ops than most people? Might mean I need to give those drones less elec regen.

    In regards to the Twisted Mobile Drone, I really don't know what you're talking about. Please post text next time instead of screenshots.

    Zerendalus wrote:
    MasterTrader wrote:
    [*]Chid Adiz Mardana Var drones have better sustain, have their surgical resistance and physical resistance swapped, and shorter range.

    6.3k dps, shields are still banking out after 10 seconds, elec banks out after 67 seconds. the drone doesn't have any resist stats btw, swapping phys and surg resist doesn't seem affect anything


    I made a mistake with the drone, it didn't have any resists due to an error on my part the next time test server updates it'll be fixed.

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    Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:49 am
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    MasterTrader wrote:
    Markoz wrote:
    .

    I'm not interested in anything that doesn't have to do with drones, any of those other issues are specific to test server or are code things. Don't post those here please.


    You should be interested in the entire game as a whole. The response should of been "thank you" or nothing in this section then you wont get this response. Even if it's irrelevant (in your view) you can see the feedback was attempted, to discourage that isn't a great approach. You never know someone giving you feedback to help this may in-fact show you something you didn't think of.

    Essential to testing (I have to guess whats irrelevant now):
    - If things aren't spawning on test it needs to (UZ panthers,zebras).
    - If the item map isn't available it needs to be (Free Market or spawned AI base in Sol).

    I can't look into your mind Hober and see whats relevant or irrelevant.

    MasterTrader wrote:
    Please post your setup when you post feedback about drones, individual performance with drones is heavily predicated on the setup. Once you do so I can evaluate whether or not the Twisted Blaster drones have too much electricity, though I assume you still have more Everlasting Ops than most people? Might mean I need to give those drones less elec regen.


    You should be able to look up everyone's setup through the test server interface, all you need is the characters name, Markoz 1. I don't want my stats revealed to the public.

    MasterTrader wrote:
    In regards to the Twisted Mobile Drone, I really don't know what you're talking about.


    Image

    Your lucky cause I'm the original creator of this content, the drone has a aura. Please look into each every drone more carefully, doesn't make me think your doing your job properly. + Spend more time thinking about wording your questions your coming across as arrogant.

    MasterTrader wrote:
    Please post text next time instead of screenshots.


    Sure if you add copy paste functionality to the chat section all would be grand. I'll post as I see fit and you can ignore to your hearts content. I'm trying to give you feedback you had no trouble reading it.. maybe understanding it?

    I would suggest (not order) some things:

    Do a extreme DPS setup then a extreme sustain setup and try to meet between.

    I went extreme player sustain setup as most of this game is about sustain cause Star Sonata wants to eat your time more for subscriptions.

    It looks like from current electrical regenerative stance that theirs been a formula used without any manual touching causing a lot of problems. And the character setup used to adjust these drones wasn't a extreme end causing things to go out of whack like the crazy +2,000 electrical sustain.

    This forum response is to help you specifically Hober in this task of communicating with the public and working on the task at hand.

    Remember this is playing with subscriptions here, muck this up and people will start quitting.

    I'll attempt again when this (with no timer) has happened:

    MasterTrader wrote:
    There's yet another set of changes coming to the test server soon, once test has been updated I'll update the first post with the recent changes.


    Spent a lot of time shortening/making it more polite response.

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    Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:52 pm
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    Heph drones are pretty tanky, but use a very small drone model. Perhaps make it use the Solarian/Pillbox drone model?


    Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:04 pm
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    Quote:
    Vervaardiger Lance Drone Mk VI - 37k DPS, shields bank out after 11 seconds, elec banks out after 74 seconds


    A drone that literally drops from a pathetic 380 dg have more dps than drones which cost an emp ray or a fucking adamantiumized rage augmenter(the most expensive ada augmenter along with the defensive one) and a several ammount of Zacs+prawn pieces per set?, I'm not even mentioning the fact it does have one of the rarest type of damage in a beam version, yes, Armada kidds have a radiation weapon + super weapon, but wait, the Vervaardiger beam weapon have DOUBLE THE DPS OF THE ARMADA KIDDS BEAM WEAPON and better, IT SUSTAIN WITH A FIRING CONTROLLER, all this without investing a single commodity.

    BFD 9000 - 12k DPS, banks out after ~95 seconds > Twisted Blaster Drone - 11k DPS, banks out after ~45 seconds

    BFD 9K are stationary drones with energy wep + laser weapon, the energy weapon dps can be nullify if the AI pass over it, however the tractors can keep the AI out so that's not a real problem (if you micro properly and you deploy the drones some distance from the group), they do not have self damage, they have the same standard range(yes i get 1k on every fucking drone, this is completely stupid), the BFD have more Shield, energy and resists compared to the TBDD, but the worse part they are waaaay more cheaper than TBDD and it cost less elec to deploy(10k for BFD and 18k to TBDD), the only drawback is that BFD 9k is neurobound, but who cares.

    On my setup and dps wise a set of 6 TBDD is just 8% better than a set of 6 BFD. both without ACnC, with ACnC it is about 9-10% difference, but this is not taking account the resist difference, the sustainability, the laser wep, the re-deployment capability and the initial cost of a set. To sum up a BFD set on test server is a better option than building a set TBDD which cost 18 Dementium and 30B in raw credits... the set of 6 bfd cost: 4 armada drones and some chrome armor scraps :lol: :lol: :lol:


    Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:56 pm
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    Markoz wrote:
    MasterTrader wrote:
    Please post your setup when you post feedback about drones, individual performance with drones is heavily predicated on the setup. Once you do so I can evaluate whether or not the Twisted Blaster drones have too much electricity, though I assume you still have more Everlasting Ops than most people? Might mean I need to give those drones less elec regen.


    You should be able to look up everyone's setup through the test server interface, all you need is the characters name, Markoz 1. I don't want my stats revealed to the public.

    I didn't know which character was the one to check against, and you hadn't given me permission to look at your setup yet. Now you have.

    MasterTrader wrote:
    In regards to the Twisted Mobile Drone, I really don't know what you're talking about.


    Image

    Your lucky cause I'm the original creator of this content, the drone has a aura. Please look into each every drone more carefully, doesn't make me think your doing your job properly. + Spend more time thinking about wording your questions your coming across as arrogant.

    Twisted Mobile Drone is not a valid drone name, there is no arrogance intended. I do not know what you're talking about. The description you gave doesn't tell me what the drone does. I have already checked a significant portion of drones super items and some drones auras to see what's taking up electricity. When you created these drones you made a lot of manual tweaks and edits that I had to go and root out in order to make sure the drones actually changed, and since they're all over the place and not documented or commented within the XML it's a wild good chase to figure out what a Twisted Mobile Drone is. Any specific information you can give me will help greatly in addressing the issue you brought up.

    I would suggest (not order) some things:

    Do a extreme DPS setup then a extreme sustain setup and try to meet between.

    I went extreme player sustain setup as most of this game is about sustain cause Star Sonata wants to eat your time more for subscriptions.

    It looks like from current electrical regenerative stance that theirs been a formula used without any manual touching causing a lot of problems. And the character setup used to adjust these drones wasn't a extreme end causing things to go out of whack like the crazy +2,000 electrical sustain.



    This is actually something that, eventually is going to be moved away from. This drone re balance I'm doing is a temporary one, but in the eventual one Jeff has expressed interest in drastically changing how drones work such that doing things like extreme sustain (from everlasting ops) isn't a thing players need to worry about. This isn't happening with these changes, but these changes do create a situation where Everlasting Operations doesn't seem as useful for general drone powering.

    Once every drone is in a decent state, I then have to go over the drones and make sure that peoples setups are not made obsolete. This is going to take a long time, and I didn't spend any time doing it before making sure all of the drones are not bugged/seem to be in a good place damage wise. It takes an intense amount of time to do the testing neccessary to make sure people using 1-2 Everlasting augs should still see some improvement in their setup over people who are not using Everlasting augs, and people using mainly offensive operations are not easily powering everything (Due to the way everything in the game works with each other). There's no way to test every setup in what would be a reasonable amount of time, but I'll get as close as I can.

    What is on test is not the final solution. It is a step towards it.

    Dispatched wrote:
    Quote:
    Vervaardiger Lance Drone Mk VI - 37k DPS, shields bank out after 11 seconds, elec banks out after 74 seconds


    A drone that literally drops from a pathetic 380 dg have more dps than drones which cost an emp ray or a fucking adamantiumized rage augmenter(the most expensive ada augmenter along with the defensive one) and a several ammount of Zacs+prawn pieces per set?, I'm not even mentioning the fact it does have one of the rarest type of damage in a beam version, yes, Armada kidds have a radiation weapon + super weapon, but wait, the Vervaardiger beam weapon have DOUBLE THE DPS OF THE ARMADA KIDDS BEAM WEAPON and better, IT SUSTAIN WITH A FIRING CONTROLLER, all this without investing a single commodity.

    BFD 9000 - 12k DPS, banks out after ~95 seconds > Twisted Blaster Drone - 11k DPS, banks out after ~45 seconds

    BFD 9K are stationary drones with energy wep + laser weapon, the energy weapon dps can be nullify if the AI pass over it, however the tractors can keep the AI out so that's not a real problem (if you micro properly and you deploy the drones some distance from the group), they do not have self damage, they have the same standard range(yes i get 1k on every fucking drone, this is completely stupid), the BFD have more Shield, energy and resists compared to the TBDD, but the worse part they are waaaay more cheaper than TBDD and it cost less elec to deploy(10k for BFD and 18k to TBDD), the only drawback is that BFD 9k is neurobound, but who cares.

    On my setup and dps wise a set of 6 TBDD is just 8% better than a set of 6 BFD. both without ACnC, with ACnC it is about 9-10% difference, but this is not taking account the resist difference, the sustainability, the laser wep, the re-deployment capability and the initial cost of a set. To sum up a BFD set on test server is a better option than building a set TBDD which cost 18 Dementium and 30B in raw credits... the set of 6 bfd cost: 4 armada drones and some chrome armor scraps :lol: :lol: :lol:


    Also, notice here that this person's Twisted Blaster drones are banking out within 45 seconds, yet yours (Markoz) have 2k extra electricity. This is the massive level of variance present in the game. It makes tweaking this stuff tricky, because players are getting wildly different values due to how their characters are augged. As you already know, not only does Offensive operations increase DPS over, it also increases Electricity used. That means an Offensive Operations oriented Engineer's drones is going to guzzle electricity at a rate way higher than an Everlasting Operations oriented Engineer... This isn't something I'm miraculously discovering now, I've known this for years because even though I don't main Engineer or have an endgame Engineer I'm not dumb. I spent a long time before we even started working on this drone stuff trying to understand how the class worked under the hood.

    In regards to Vervaardiger drones @Dispatched, I'll take another look at them. I think, prior to any changes I made, they get a significant amount of electricity from inbuilt stats due to whoever made them originally seeing that they were way too weak. I'll be massaging individual drones once we've ironed out the major kinks. I agree that an extremely expensive drone should be better than a non expensive drone. I also think that more expensive and rare drones should, probably, sustain for longer than non expensive drones.

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    Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:16 am
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    Post Re: Feedback thread for Drone Rebalance
    Markoz its easy to buff people but hard to nerf them.


    Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:28 am
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