Star Sonata
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Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=59132		 Page 3 of 8
Author:  spouink [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
urzaserra256 wrote:
What does trade scamming add to the game? Drop trading has numerous problems even for legitemate trading.

And WoW most certainly has the ability highlight to copy and paste available in the form of probably several chat related addons. Maybe not in the default UI, but can be for those who want it. WoW also has tons of online resources to refer to for things like stat weighting, rotations etc.


How can you not see that it adds to the game? You would literally be removing the few remaining unique aspects of the game. Making bases aggressive was removed, would you also want to remove the ability to attack another player with a damaging weapon whatsoever and just have emporer be alternated between the top 3 teams per uni, if you had the coice?

What are you even getting at with at? Of course it might have that, but there is such a small number who would ever think about downloading an addon to solely make their in game chat highlightable. I have played WoW for a considerable amount of time, and the only addon I can think of that might possibly be able to do that is ElvUi, or something. Other than that, no, you're wrong, the game does not use that kind of chat system. It works perfectly fine. You don't have to add that games that aren't this one, can use external addons, because it would be very repetitive.. This game does not use addons, it doesn't mean it has to implement an obscure existing one in a game with thousands of addons that can change any part of the UI completely. This game does not have that luxury and it doesn't need to added to be considered complete.
Author:  SSGamer [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
spouink wrote:
How can you not see that it adds to the game? You would literally be removing the few remaining unique aspects of the game.

There's "unique", and then there's "1990s". SS has many outdated systems, and trading happens to be a big one. There comes a point when super-retro is no longer cute and endearing.

I do, however, agree with your opinion on the chat system - it seems a little much, and while a "digital notepad" of sorts would useful, it isn't necessary. Besides, so long as the game does a good job of actually giving players information, I don't believe functioning links to the wiki or anything is truly needed. (Of course, in the state SS is currently in...it would certainly help.)

OT: There are two other things I'd like to bring up before I go back to lurking and/or drafting up suggestions. The first concerns Calypso's work:

Calypso wrote:
This is something The Vert and I have been making a big push on -- dedicated content zones that players get directed to that offer AI to level on. Arctia (20-50) and Vulcan (20-100) are the first 2 instances of this, but there will definitely be more in the future (an UrQa / Paxian zone was actually planned!). Some other examples are Blue Outpost, Blanco and the Auric Sector. But definitely keep looking for more zones like this.

I actually find this development increasingly worrying. It feels to me that SS's larger universe - that is, the procedurally-generated random galaxies in between here and there - is being ignored. There are two main problems posed by this: First, random AI swarms (especially in west W-1) can frequently bring down newer players while they're on their way to those content zones or even to just finish a particular mission chain. Second, those galaxies start to feel empty and meaningless - all they'll ever serve at that point, aside from newbie base-building fodder, is to chronically pad out the distance between you and the special POI system you want to explore. There have always been elements of this (it's why "AFK AP" is a household initialism), but with more and more content zones being implemented, system dilution will start becoming more significant of an issue.

The second thing I want to bring to attention is the dire need for rebalancing much of the game's pre-existing low-tech gear. SS doesn't really "take off" until T10 or so - and even then you still have to sort through all the rubbish to actually get some equipment worth using. Until then, it's a lot of boredom, frustration, and pain. Low-tech weapons don't necessarily have the damage output to take down the legions of aggressive AI that are out on the hunt for newbies; low-tech energies lack either the bank or the regen (frequently both) to sustain the aforementioned weapons; most low-tech shields have remarkably poor base stats that demand augmenters to make them even remotely useful.

Here is where older players (and I myself) will immediately say: Why deal with all that low-tech garbage? Safety in numbers. Make a slave swarm and then wreck the face of everything in your way.

And this is a problem.

Because low-leveled players have such insanely high TTK (time to kill) without the amounts of bank to actually remain in a sustained firefight, the game is actively pigeonholing players into one of two play-styles: either make a ton of slaves, or grab a ton of drones. (Or hop onto the current bandwagon and chuck tons of missiles at things.) Run-and-gun approaches - SD, Seer, Sniper, Berserker - simply don't exist, or are inefficient at best.

This plays on a number of things - class balance, skill balance, information available to players about RC and DD - but is above all else reliant on gear. SS is basically a dungeon crawler in space, but without the actual rewards of a good dungeon crawler. Arctia, Vulcan, and the Colored Empires are a step in the right direction (you know the gear's fairly balanced if veterans are saying it's "OP") - but most of the work needs to be done on the equipment available as AI drops or as purchases from AI bases, so that we don't have mountains of pointless gear covering up a few decent gems.
Author:  Tomzta09 [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
Devs - Spend more time reading some of these great ideas instead of trying to turn all chat into a kindergarten with the overly carebear moderation.
Author:  prolex [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
Quote:
Slaves/Drones/Missiles/Fighters have next to no explanation. Little information is known about them to low level players.


This.
Author:  The Vert [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
Tomzta09 wrote:
Devs - Spend more time reading some of these great ideas instead of trying to turn all chat into a kindergarten with the overly carebear moderation.


Developers have little to no interaction with moderation :roll: If you want to address issues, spend some time understanding how things work in the developer team? ;)
Author:  xantra [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
I think the game needs to be streamlined. I don't just mean the new player experience - the leveling experience needs to be looked at across the board. As it stands, leveling is very tedious, and tends not to draw new players in, and there's a distinct lack of direction and intuitiveness; people find themselves not knowing where to get important skills or where to go next.

The first thing I'd like to suggest is making the levels of AI you encounter much tighter and more consistent. AI level and difficulty should much more rigidly correspond with the system's danger factor. Another thing I would suggest is overhauling the behaviour and characteristics of almost all AI in Earthforce space, as well as placement of AI. Split Earthforce space up into areas that are controlled by each of the pirate factions, rather than having an assortment of AI everywhere, which simply leads to players covering large distances just to hunt a handful of different AI that their class finds easy to level on.

Another idea I would suggest to tie into the above, is to add map filters. Want to find somewhere to level? Just enter a level range into the UI, and the map highlights an area where AI within that range can be found. Looking for a particular kind of AI? Enter the name into the UI.

There is more I could probably add to this, but if you're going to keep new players interested in the game, I think the core leveling needs a lot of attention.
Author:  SSGamer [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
xantra wrote:
I think the game needs to be streamlined. I don't just mean the new player experience - the leveling experience needs to be looked at across the board. As it stands, leveling is very tedious, and tends not to draw new players in, and there's a distinct lack of direction and intuitiveness; people find themselves not knowing where to get important skills or where to go next.

The first thing I'd like to suggest is making the levels of AI you encounter much tighter and more consistent. AI level and difficulty should much more rigidly correspond with the system's danger factor. Another thing I would suggest is overhauling the behaviour and characteristics of almost all AI in Earthforce space, as well as placement of AI. Split Earthforce space up into areas that are controlled by each of the pirate factions, rather than having an assortment of AI everywhere, which simply leads to players covering large distances just to hunt a handful of different AI that their class finds easy to level on.

Another idea I would suggest to tie into the above, is to add map filters. Want to find somewhere to level? Just enter a level range into the UI, and the map highlights an area where AI within that range can be found. Looking for a particular kind of AI? Enter the name into the UI.

There is more I could probably add to this, but if you're going to keep new players interested in the game, I think the core leveling needs a lot of attention.

I think map filters could be implemented in a more passive manner - that is to say, to bring actual meaningfulness to the aspect of "Danger Factor" and actually have it tie in more significantly to the game's systems. SPAZ is an excellent example of this; the core narrative, in fact, informs you that the closer you get to the galaxy core, the more advanced UTA and civilian tech becomes - which serves as an ample warning for the player to "gear up or blow up".

Currently I'm working on a design doc that will hopefully consolidate most, if not all, of the game's AI entities into identifiable races and factions, with clearly defined aggro triggers and maybe ways to ally yourself with one or the other (or both, why not?). Progress is slow because there's a lot to account for, but I at least want to give everything a reason to exist - so to speak.
Author:  The Salty One [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
Rather than distinct faction "zones" couldn't we have swathes of space belonging to certain factions? Sort of like a subspace that actually works (btw, redo subspace...). Then throw random encounter type events into the mix and it might actually become enjoyable AP'ing to places. Things like timed spawning dungeons with good loot, giant comets full of resources, roaming ubers... all these things could add more meaning instead of just "AP to X, bunch of annoying AI in the way".

Also I'd like to point out we already have quite a few low level zones that simply aren't being used right now and could do with revision. We have bonnet, Infernal Tempest, Protoplasmica, enigmatic sector, subspace (lol). Instead of just making these zones useless with new and shinier content, shouldn't you revise them first?
Author:  MasterTrader [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
PLEASE redo Subspace, every time I go there I expect to be able to capture galaxies for my Paxian Overloads. :cry:
Author:  ELITE [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
MasterTrader wrote:
PLEASE redo Subspace, every time I go there I expect to be able to capture galaxies for my Paxian Overloads. :cry:


wut
Author:  Tomzta09 [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
The Vert wrote:
Tomzta09 wrote:
Devs - Spend more time reading some of these great ideas instead of trying to turn all chat into a kindergarten with the overly carebear moderation.


Developers have little to no interaction with moderation :roll: If you want to address issues, spend some time understanding how things work in the developer team? ;)


Oh right, it's just you who does that. My apologies.
Author:  MasterTrader [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
ELITE wrote:
MasterTrader wrote:
PLEASE redo Subspace, every time I go there I expect to be able to capture galaxies for my Paxian Overloads. :cry:


wut


Subspace was supposed to be a contestable battlezone, per a dev post some time back.
Author:  Dom [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
So I recently started playing again from scratch, might sub this acct later on actually. But I still miss a smooth transition from Nexus/Deep Space into actual space and Sol, there is no real storyline or something to guide you along the way, nothing blatantly clear atleast. This is a huge problem.
Author:  ELITE [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
Dom wrote:
So I recently started playing again from scratch, might sub this acct later on actually. But I still miss a smooth transition from Nexus/Deep Space into actual space and Sol, there is no real storyline or something to guide you along the way, nothing blatantly clear atleast. This is a huge problem.


The warp from Deep Space takes you directly into Sol iirc. Then you start your Earth missions!
Author:  xantra [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player List of Pre-Greenlight Necessities
ELITE wrote:
Dom wrote:
So I recently started playing again from scratch, might sub this acct later on actually. But I still miss a smooth transition from Nexus/Deep Space into actual space and Sol, there is no real storyline or something to guide you along the way, nothing blatantly clear atleast. This is a huge problem.


The warp from Deep Space takes you directly into Sol iirc. Then you start your Earth missions!


He is right though; the leveling experience is unstructured and directionless. The game's story plays almost no role at all in leveling once you leave the Nexus.
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