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Team: Eminence Front
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Fyuryus wrote:
Bindo isn't the only problem. There's also the trillions upon trillions (not an exageration) of credits that have been pumped into the economy via other exploits. Banning one account doesn't solve that issue, not in the slightest. It's been an ongoing exploit that multiple players have taken advantage of. You don't need to be an expert in economics and game balance to know that's a very bad thing to have happen.


Inflation. Inflation happens. More money means that money is worth less. It devalues the yield of colony whores. It doesn't do much to affect the new player experience. Commodities will just go up in value and prospecting/mining/extracting/grinding for content become that much more valuable.

Just charge higher prices for your stuff. If you don't have any stuff, go get some stuff. Not having gotten any stuff is probably your problem. More credits in a single economy (There is only one currency here so that greatly simplifies the global economy) just doesn't matter that much. If anything, it is a good thing for new players since one bindo source can sell for enough to buy almost anything one needs from AI stations. The market prices offered at user based shops will of course rise with inflation.


Thu May 07, 2015 5:59 pm
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Main: ShawnMcCall
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
TMOI2 wrote:
Fyuryus wrote:
Bindo isn't the only problem. There's also the trillions upon trillions (not an exageration) of credits that have been pumped into the economy via other exploits. Banning one account doesn't solve that issue, not in the slightest. It's been an ongoing exploit that multiple players have taken advantage of. You don't need to be an expert in economics and game balance to know that's a very bad thing to have happen.


Inflation. Inflation happens. More money means that money is worth less. It devalues the yield of colony whores. It doesn't do much to affect the new player experience. Commodities will just go up in value and prospecting/mining/extracting/grinding for content become that much more valuable.

Just charge higher prices for your stuff. If you don't have any stuff, go get some stuff. Not having gotten any stuff is probably your problem. More credits in a single economy (There is only one currency here so that greatly simplifies the global economy) just doesn't matter that much. If anything, it is a good thing for new players since one bindo source can sell for enough to buy almost anything one needs from AI stations. The market prices offered at user based shops will of course rise with inflation.


Yeah inflation isn't a problem, just ask the great depression, and post WWI Germany. :roll:

Seriously though, yes it is a problem, especially when trillions upon trillions of credits were introduced into the game due to a bug, and were never removed. Inflation is natural yes, however it is still wholly detrimental, especially if unchecked or allowed to grow exponentially, like it has in SS. Then there is all of the ill begotten gear that technically should not exist (yay bugs), that is far stronger than anything a new player will ever be able to get their hands on.

Honestly I wouldn't even mind a system where everything was wiped, but all items built from rare blueprints were converted back into blueprints and deposited in respective players TSL, because the issue is not level like one of those ass clowns up there thinks it is (seriously you can pop 3k in half sub) it is all of the gear and money that is no longer obtainable by legitimate means by a new player, that creates a power gap that is impossible to scale because the exploits that allowed it to happen have been sealed up, but the yield from those exploits allowed to continue existing.


Thu May 07, 2015 7:30 pm
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Team: Eminence Front
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
ShawnMcCall wrote:
TMOI2 wrote:
Fyuryus wrote:
Yeah inflation isn't a problem, just ask the great depression, and post WWI Germany. :roll:

Post WWI Germany was one economy on its own currency in a world of over a hundred similar actors. SS is only one economy. The negative effects of inflation on post WWI Germany were caused by its trade deficit combined with the average person's inability to produce all of the things they need by themselves after specialization of labor became the obvious choice of the modern world. It has absolutely no parallel to SS which is a singular economy that competes with no one, the resources of which are rarely limited by anything other than the level of effort exerted by the player base. Just because you heard the word inflation applied once to something that was bad does not mean that inflation is always bad, or always good, or anything other than a market force. In the 20's the populist movement was largely founded on the desire for inflation, which at that time would have greatly advantaged farmers over banks.


Seriously though, yes it is a problem, especially when trillions upon trillions of credits were introduced into the game due to a bug, and were never removed. Inflation is natural yes, however it is still wholly detrimental, especially if unchecked or allowed to grow exponentially, like it has in SS. Then there is all of the ill begotten gear that technically should not exist (yay bugs), that is far stronger than anything a new player will ever be able to get their hands on. [/quote]

Why exactly would inflation grow exponentially? What possibly evidence could you have that this could have ever occurred in SS? Do you have ANY data to back up these claims that clearly rely on some presupposition of evidence or common knowledge? Please try to break it down for a noob like me how this could possibly make any real sense.


[/quote]Honestly I wouldn't even mind a system where everything was wiped, but all items built from rare blueprints were converted back into blueprints and deposited in respective players TSL, because the issue is not level like one of those ass clowns up there thinks it is (seriously you can pop 3k in half sub) it is all of the gear and money that is no longer obtainable by legitimate means by a new player, that creates a power gap that is impossible to scale because the exploits that allowed it to happen have been sealed up, but the yield from those exploits allowed to continue existing.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

again, any data? Any data at all? How did they make so much money? What was the exploit? How does it compare to legitimate means of making insane cash off of colonies?

I feel like a damn Republican here but in a fake economy it truly is on you to pull yourself by your bootstraps. Whatever goofy mechanic or bug that no longer exists is not the reason these people are so much further than you. Its because they have played longer. They invested into this game and in this game they will be rewarded for it. Trying to wipe the slate clean is just such an awful, dirty idea. It rankles my appreciation for game theory.

Damn it, am I going to end up voting for Jeb Bush... 2001 me would be pissed.


Thu May 07, 2015 7:53 pm
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Team: Eminence Front
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Would someone please explain to me how to quote multiple passages. I too dumb to figure out how to quote this many dumb things at the same time...


Thu May 07, 2015 7:57 pm
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Location: TARDIS, Time Vortex, Main Universe, Reality, Big Bang 2, Multiverse 1
Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
MasterTrader wrote:
Allow players to add mods to their items using bindo and another item, implement dungeon queues and looking for group systems, implement a tutorial for base building that a new player cannot miss that EXPLICITLY tells them that Base Building is the only way to craft, implement a "Recommended" tag into the game so that when a player picks up an item and its useful for their class and level it will show that to be true. Use instancing in the lower level adventure zones (Nexus/Arctia/Vulcan/Mira/Jungle) and make sure people get those as mission popups as SOON as they hit the level they can use them.

Funnel, herd, and direct new players to the content you want them to participate in. Give them tools to team up with other new players easily. Explain how things work. Stop relying on people to "figure things out" when it comes to simple shit that should be explained the moment you log into the game.

These things are the things that get people to stay and play a game. Not very many people care about super duper end game content, people play games to have fun. Not everyone is going to multiclient and do a billion other things to have maximum efficiency. Make this game accessible to people with only a few hours every few days to play it, and I promise you the game will grow.

Oh, and for goodness sake, fix the lack of engine graphics and the low quality effects. I've told so many people about this game and they complain heavily about how tacky it looks.

Could not agree more.

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Thu May 07, 2015 10:02 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
TMOI2 wrote:
Would someone please explain to me how to quote multiple passages. I too dumb to figure out how to quote this many dumb things at the same time...



Code:
[quote]This is quote 1[/quote]


This is my text!


[quote]This is quote 2[/quote]


This is my second text!

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Star Sonata is not ready for a release on Steam. See this topic for what we think should be done about it.
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=59132


Thu May 07, 2015 10:06 pm
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Main: ShawnMcCall
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Not quoting your abomination there because I cba to fix it. As far as I understand the credits came from a bug that allowed people to duplicate credits through the TSL. They pulled out what they could track down, but in the end a huge amount stayed in, because people using the TSL at the time were inadvertently creating credits out of no where. Those who specifically chose to exploit it created literally trillions of credits.

As far as the gear there was a bug with bindomite, and it not properly neurobinding gear. So not only were people able to bypass the neurolock on the gear but they could drop bindo after bindo into gear until it was perfect. I for one have an SS full of that shit.

Also, you seem to think I am a new player. I have been with SS for 8, coming up on nine years.


Thu May 07, 2015 10:12 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
ShawnMcCall wrote:

As far as the gear there was a bug with bindomite, and it not properly neurobinding gear. So not only were people able to bypass the neurolock on the gear but they could drop bindo after bindo into gear until it was perfect. I for one have an SS full of that shit.


I've never heard of this bindo bug. I've only ever seen it happen during a Reset, once. Which means the number of times gear has un-neuro'd is less than 5 times.

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Thu May 07, 2015 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
NB gear reset at least 3 times. That means there is 4x or maybe even 5x Bindo'd gear out there.

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Thu May 07, 2015 10:44 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
bindo bug still works confirmed.


Fri May 08, 2015 5:37 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
sabre198 wrote:
bindo bug still works confirmed.


You're joking, yes?


Fri May 08, 2015 6:31 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
yes but they are working on a fix for good this uni reset. Better late than never.


Fri May 08, 2015 7:02 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
To be clear on Bindomite and bugs related to it: All the known issues are fixed, but due to the nature of the way the system was implemented, there has been a few special occurances that is nearly impossible for us to imagine until the issue has occured, and we can track it down. We solely rely on player reports to track those down, which is why you guys are the main source to reducing bugs like these to a minimum.

I encourage everyone to contact me with information if you believe you know of other bugs related to Bindomite :) A special (and new) type of reward are given out to those who help us shed light on previously unknown issues :)

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Fri May 08, 2015 7:06 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
sabre198 wrote:
yes but they are working on a fix for good this uni reset. Better late than never.


This exact issue was something I had been suspicious about since the last universe reset, and we isolated the issue now. Very few players would see this bug, and it isn't something the player can actively take advantage of, but nontheless it is good to have it isolated and fixed :)

The majority of the issues with Bindomite was related to the issues some universes ago where most items had their neurobound tag lost, which was the outcome of the developed system not being completely secure and tested. Most other occurances posterior to that was related to players actively taking advantage of exploits that they knew about, which has been hard to track down since hardly any players report it. Some might still be around, which is why we stress that players report issues to us, even if it is only a small suspicion or a "rumor" :)

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Fri May 08, 2015 7:14 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Thanks for replying Vert, any comment on any of this?

MasterTrader wrote:
Allow players to add mods to their items using bindo and another item, implement dungeon queues and looking for group systems, implement a tutorial for base building that a new player cannot miss that EXPLICITLY tells them that Base Building is the only way to craft, implement a "Recommended" tag into the game so that when a player picks up an item and its useful for their class and level it will show that to be true. Use instancing in the lower level adventure zones (Nexus/Arctia/Vulcan/Mira/Jungle) and make sure people get those as mission popups as SOON as they hit the level they can use them.

Funnel, herd, and direct new players to the content you want them to participate in. Give them tools to team up with other new players easily. Explain how things work. Stop relying on people to "figure things out" when it comes to simple shit that should be explained the moment you log into the game.

These things are the things that get people to stay and play a game. Not very many people care about super duper end game content, people play games to have fun. Not everyone is going to multiclient and do a billion other things to have maximum efficiency. Make this game accessible to people with only a few hours every few days to play it, and I promise you the game will grow.

Oh, and for goodness sake, fix the lack of engine graphics and the low quality effects. I've told so many people about this game and they complain heavily about how tacky it looks.

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Fri May 08, 2015 12:17 pm
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