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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
I dont care about convincing you


Thu May 07, 2015 6:09 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Fyuryus wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Clean slate for the game when it launches to steam is actually not the worst idea I have heard. That way some veteran players will stay with their knowledge, and probably found new teams in which they will level with and teach the new players while progressing through the new content.


I agree 110%. I whole heartedly think this is the best course of action unless someone can convince me otherwise. Thoughts?


Everyone who worked hard insta-quits, the people who want a clean slate get bored in 2 weeks, no-one's left to pay the server bills, game dies.


Thu May 07, 2015 6:25 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Skirmish wrote:
Fyuryus wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Clean slate for the game when it launches to steam is actually not the worst idea I have heard. That way some veteran players will stay with their knowledge, and probably found new teams in which they will level with and teach the new players while progressing through the new content.


I agree 110%. I whole heartedly think this is the best course of action unless someone can convince me otherwise. Thoughts?


Everyone who worked hard insta-quits, the people who want a clean slate get bored in 2 weeks, no-one's left to pay the server bills, game dies.


Huge baseless assumption, and even if the old guys do quit SS is on its last legs as is, if they allow the current vets to lord over the new influx (remember reddit) it's as good as gone.


Thu May 07, 2015 6:35 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
No more than the assumption that they won't.


Thu May 07, 2015 6:45 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Skirmish wrote:
No more than the assumption that they won't.


Yes, but the argument about whether they will stay is moot. The important thing is new blood staying. As you may recall the reddit brigade left with the chief complaint of a power gap that was functionally impossible to scale. SS missed it's first big break and the administration knows why. letting that happen again is tantamount to suicide.

Let's also not forget that even if they wiped the server vets would still stand head and shoulders above new joins just from years of knowledge to pull on. They have to learn the game, and experiment (which will inevitably fail them at some point, but that is the fun of discovery) vets know where to go and when, as well as the source for every valuable commodity or item in the game up to this point and the best method to exploit it. Even with a reset, they're still David, and you're still Goliath, except they will have to stones to throw at you.

The best example of this is when they were testing C2 before the launch with a clean slate. Players were bring whole accounts up to the 1k+ threshold in a matter of days. A new player would never manage even that small feat without very detailed instruction and backing from a vet. Yet it's something that any one of us can accomplish without giving it much thought. We know what works, and as much as everyone doesn't want to lose their precious inventory you have the knowledge to rebuild every last bit of it (with a few minor exceptions... and all of the exploited gear, skills, and credits that shouldn't exist anyway).


Thu May 07, 2015 6:56 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Skirmish wrote:
As you may recall the reddit brigade left with the chief complaint of a power gap that was functionally impossible to scale. .


who told you this , Churchill?

It was More Nexus just sucks in a zebucart with 100 other zebucarts on screen and the game is too sandboxy to begin with, nobody knew what to do and went this is lame, bye..


Thu May 07, 2015 7:14 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Skirmish wrote:
No more than the assumption that they won't.


Yes, but the argument about whether they will stay is moot. The important thing is new blood staying. As you may recall the reddit brigade left with the chief complaint of a power gap that was functionally impossible to scale. SS missed it's first big break and the administration knows why. letting that happen again is tantamount to suicide.

Let's also not forget that even if they wiped the server vets would still stand head and shoulders above new joins just from years of knowledge to pull on. They have to learn the game, and experiment (which will inevitably fail them at some point, but that is the fun of discovery) vets know where to go and when, as well as the source for every valuable commodity or item in the game up to this point and the best method to exploit it. Even with a reset, they're still David, and you're still Goliath, except they will have to stones to throw at you.

The best example of this is when they were testing C2 before the launch with a clean slate. Players were bring whole accounts up to the 1k+ threshold in a matter of days. A new player would never manage even that small feat without very detailed instruction and backing from a vet. Yet it's something that any one of us can accomplish without giving it much thought. We know what works, and as much as everyone doesn't want to lose their precious inventory you have the knowledge to rebuild every last bit of it (with a few minor exceptions... and all of the exploited gear, skills, and credits that shouldn't exist anyway).


And people having stuff they've built up over time prevent nubs playing + enjoying content at their own level how mr. assumption? How does wiping the slate clean prevent further imbalances between established and new players down the track? We just wipe the server every time we want more players and they show up? That's the worst assumption I ever heard.


Thu May 07, 2015 8:39 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Skirmish wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Skirmish wrote:
No more than the assumption that they won't.


Yes, but the argument about whether they will stay is moot. The important thing is new blood staying. As you may recall the reddit brigade left with the chief complaint of a power gap that was functionally impossible to scale. SS missed it's first big break and the administration knows why. letting that happen again is tantamount to suicide.

Let's also not forget that even if they wiped the server vets would still stand head and shoulders above new joins just from years of knowledge to pull on. They have to learn the game, and experiment (which will inevitably fail them at some point, but that is the fun of discovery) vets know where to go and when, as well as the source for every valuable commodity or item in the game up to this point and the best method to exploit it. Even with a reset, they're still David, and you're still Goliath, except they will have to stones to throw at you.

The best example of this is when they were testing C2 before the launch with a clean slate. Players were bring whole accounts up to the 1k+ threshold in a matter of days. A new player would never manage even that small feat without very detailed instruction and backing from a vet. Yet it's something that any one of us can accomplish without giving it much thought. We know what works, and as much as everyone doesn't want to lose their precious inventory you have the knowledge to rebuild every last bit of it (with a few minor exceptions... and all of the exploited gear, skills, and credits that shouldn't exist anyway).


And people having stuff they've built up over time prevent nubs playing + enjoying content at their own level how mr. assumption? How does wiping the slate clean prevent further imbalances between established and new players down the track? We just wipe the server every time we want more players and they show up? That's the worst assumption I ever heard.


No, because the intent is to establish a playerbase at all levels of the game. When a game is as top heavy as SS, it can literally go nowhere. To argue that point, show me the flourishing playerbase of SS. You can't because it hasn't existed since like '08 when there wasn't a years to bridge long gap between a new guy and literally every other player in the game. If people cannot be competitive *they will quit* there is no way around that in a game that includes inter-player engagement.

To make this simple; let's say you join a high pop WoW server tomorrow, and find out you are the only beginner on the 10,000 man server. You have no one to play with at your level, and everywhere you go is a ghost town, you cannot do dungeons because there is no one else at that level to engage them with you, basically you are stuck to farming AI and solo quests until you catch up to everyone else, or you can let them twink you over a period of a few hours into the endgame.

What do you do, play solo get bored and quit (like new players in SS), or get twinked have no sense of accomplishment get bored and quit (like new players in SS)? Because that is my experience with the vast majority of legit new players in this game. Either they go it alone and quit or get powerleveled/geared and quit a few months later. Meanwhile the only people who stick around are the old guys who accumulate all of the accounts as the newer (and occasionally older) guys move on.

SS is on a downward spiral whether you like to admit it or not. For evidence of this you need to look no further than the public chats. When I joined SS All Chat moved so fast you typically couldn't read but bits and pieces if you really tried, your trade messages were visible for less and 2-3 seconds. At this moment I have been sitting on the webchat for almost four hours and I have seen 5 trade messages, and every conversation in all chat over 4-5 lines of dialogue was started and sustained by me.


Thu May 07, 2015 8:55 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
ShawnMcCall wrote:
The best example of this is when they were testing C2 before the launch with a clean slate. Players were bring whole accounts up to the 1k+ threshold in a matter of days. A new player would never manage even that small feat without very detailed instruction and backing from a vet.


ShawnMcCall wrote:
No, because the intent is to establish a playerbase at all levels of the game. When a game is as top heavy as SS, it can literally go nowhere.


ShawnMcCall wrote:
Some stuff that has nothing to do with the level of the players


Slow down, make your mind up, and use facts relevant to the points you're trying to make.


Thu May 07, 2015 10:11 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Damn, a wipe? That sounds like a really terrible idea. I think this game needs to be a little more creative than that to attract more new players with the steam release.

This idea that the higher levels of this game are inaccessible to new players is rediculous. I started in september of last year, restarted my account in december, and had a T22 ship by February. I'm certainly not the MVP of T22 runs yet, but I don't feel discouraged either.

One of this games greatest strengths is that there is always something else to do. If your a decent guy and show a good team your a worthwhile member, you have no limit.

Also, this whole exploit thing is really whiny. Every once in a while there are real bugs that need to be fixed, but the idea of punishing any player for taking whatever advantages they can find is rediculous. While this game always has room for some creative rebalancing, the idea that someone thought they should try to create a ship specifically for afk farming ares warriors is not something they should be banned for. Everyone afk's for levels in DG's. While this is probably something that should be fixed, making ares warriors worth no xp, sux. More appropriately they should instanced and become exponentially more difficult after you stay in a zone for more than 10 minutes. Maybe every DG should have a similar mechanic.

Does anyone even have an idea of how much bindo is in the game anyway? I don't know much about how that "exploit" worked, but if the bug caused an imbalance there are much better ways to fix it than wiping the entire game. How about just adding new mods that are several times better than the original mods, but are insanely more rare for each modification after the first? This would instantly make all of the old modded equipment a cheap sale for the people at the top of the game, while giving newer players a big advantage in that there first mod would be the best.

This game has always done a great job of making itself better by adding things, not by taking away things. People worked hard for that stuff, and while I hate all the "I'm so uberer than you" crap as much as the next person who hasn't been on since 2004, it's never been some horrible game breaking element for me.

The only big thing I think this game needs to do is finally make space points tradable in game. Maybe make them useful for some other things (like bindo possibly, with an increase in its prospecting rarity). The newer players who wanted to spend a little more would make a lot of money off the ultra rich in game this way and would do a nice job of redistributing wealth while at the same time paying for the salary of an extra dev or two to keep an eye on these bugs you guys are whining so hard about.


Thu May 07, 2015 10:26 am
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Allow players to add mods to their items using bindo and another item, implement dungeon queues and looking for group systems, implement a tutorial for base building that a new player cannot miss that EXPLICITLY tells them that Base Building is the only way to craft, implement a "Recommended" tag into the game so that when a player picks up an item and its useful for their class and level it will show that to be true. Use instancing in the lower level adventure zones (Nexus/Arctia/Vulcan/Mira/Jungle) and make sure people get those as mission popups as SOON as they hit the level they can use them.

Funnel, herd, and direct new players to the content you want them to participate in. Give them tools to team up with other new players easily. Explain how things work. Stop relying on people to "figure things out" when it comes to simple shit that should be explained the moment you log into the game.

These things are the things that get people to stay and play a game. Not very many people care about super duper end game content, people play games to have fun. Not everyone is going to multiclient and do a billion other things to have maximum efficiency. Make this game accessible to people with only a few hours every few days to play it, and I promise you the game will grow.

Oh, and for goodness sake, fix the lack of engine graphics and the low quality effects. I've told so many people about this game and they complain heavily about how tacky it looks.

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Thu May 07, 2015 12:46 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
MasterTrader wrote:
Allow players to add mods to their items using bindo and another item, implement dungeon queues and looking for group systems, implement a tutorial for base building that a new player cannot miss that EXPLICITLY tells them that Base Building is the only way to craft, implement a "Recommended" tag into the game so that when a player picks up an item and its useful for their class and level it will show that to be true. Use instancing in the lower level adventure zones (Nexus/Arctia/Vulcan/Mira/Jungle) and make sure people get those as mission popups as SOON as they hit the level they can use them.

Funnel, herd, and direct new players to the content you want them to participate in. Give them tools to team up with other new players easily. Explain how things work. Stop relying on people to "figure things out" when it comes to simple shit that should be explained the moment you log into the game.

These things are the things that get people to stay and play a game. Not very many people care about super duper end game content, people play games to have fun. Not everyone is going to multiclient and do a billion other things to have maximum efficiency. Make this game accessible to people with only a few hours every few days to play it, and I promise you the game will grow.

Oh, and for goodness sake, fix the lack of engine graphics and the low quality effects. I've told so many people about this game and they complain heavily about how tacky it looks.


Spot on.

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Thu May 07, 2015 2:15 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Meow?

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Thu May 07, 2015 2:58 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Bindo isn't the only problem. There's also the trillions upon trillions (not an exageration) of credits that have been pumped into the economy via other exploits. Banning one account doesn't solve that issue, not in the slightest. It's been an ongoing exploit that multiple players have taken advantage of. You don't need to be an expert in economics and game balance to know that's a very bad thing to have happen.

What Shawn has said about the game being top heavy is spot on which I've seen slowly progress over the years thanks to me staying on smaller teams with primarily new players. It got to the point where there was no pool of new players to recruit from, because new players who have the intention of sticking around were so far and few between if you ever wanted to recruit new players there's none to find. If we wanted to grow our team it required a merger of teams or waiting for a large team to disban and we try and scoop their members up.

Recent events only exacerbates this top heavy effect. Things have become so top heavy now and the economy so inflated there's no chance it'll naturally recover and may even be the final nail in the coffin for this game. I understand players objections to a complete wipe but we won't be the first game to do one and we certainly won't be the last.

If anyone has other solutions on how the damage may be reversed I'd like to hear them but so far I've only heard two options. One option being a wipe, the second being doing nothing and let things carry on and hope for the best.


Perhaps we could get a developer response?

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Last edited by Fyuryus on Thu May 07, 2015 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Thu May 07, 2015 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Petition to hold exploiters accountable.
Skirmish wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
The best example of this is when they were testing C2 before the launch with a clean slate. Players were bring whole accounts up to the 1k+ threshold in a matter of days. A new player would never manage even that small feat without very detailed instruction and backing from a vet.


ShawnMcCall wrote:
No, because the intent is to establish a playerbase at all levels of the game. When a game is as top heavy as SS, it can literally go nowhere.


ShawnMcCall wrote:
Some stuff that has nothing to do with the level of the players


Slow down, make your mind up, and use facts relevant to the points you're trying to make.


If you're not capable of following it I am not dumbing it down for you.

Edit; Fyuryus already did it for you.


Thu May 07, 2015 5:49 pm
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