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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
MasterTrader wrote:
They could bring back that nostalgia by simply locking Ortho view and really pushing the VFX. Really hate the shitty ass engine effects we have now, for instance, and if I remember right a major reason why they didn't devote time to doing it is because they couldn't get them to look right in 3D and 2D. Meanwhile...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/20700/

Look at the system requirements for this piece of shit game that looks so much better than the game we have... that was made back in 2003.

Supported OS: Windows
Processor: Pentium II 300 MHz or higher
Memory: 128Mb or more free system memory
Hard disk space: 100Mb
DirectX version: DirectX 8 or higher
Video: Any Hardware 3D graphics accelerator with 32Mb or more of onboard memory
Sound: Any DirectSound compatible soundcard
Controller: Any Direct compatible pad

I honestly believe SS developers could do a better job than those developers if they made a firm commitment, drew up a 6month+ plan, and did it. They already have a particle system that's been streamlined by Jey, just lock the camera and start sprucing the game up...


EDIT: Oh yeah...

Image

Ands not the one with those stupid ass black marks. The shiny white surface with the black mark on the back for the engine. THATS the Zebucart, and it looks so much better than flying a miniature dick...


That game looks amazing, SS would be able to look like that if they never went for this 2.5d shit. Also they definitely need to change the zebu graphic, its not appealing at all. I would suggest that for every zebu upgrade they just change the color of the ship or something.

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Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
juicy wrote:
Dropping 3D entirely and going back to 2D would be so much better. I loved the sprites for C1. Having flat sprites also just feels more consistent, which makes collisions for projectiles feel more like they actually connect with what they hit. Sprites also felt more "solid" and robust if that makes sense; right now everything feels hollow. The current Bulk Trader in particular is something that really just looks hollow. The spinning parts seem really unnecessary, and make the hitbox seem disconnected.

How many people are for or against the 3D, anyway? I'd imagine there was a lot people had to say about it when it first came around, but I wasn't here for that.

Also, I don't want to seem like I've only got bad things to say about the game. I really do like it and think it's extremely unique. Playing C1 long ago was some of the most fun I've ever had in an MMO. This game really deserves more popularity.

EDIT: The Enforcer had a pretty good sprite. It had the 'simple yet good' feel, which I think is a really good art direction.


I would definitely prefer high quality sprites and orthographic mode. 2.5D adds no value to the game in my opinion. But I retract the argumentativeness of my earlier remark since you do seem to have a good attitude in general about things. It's just been a very tiring 5 years of refuting bad arguments from nostalgic returning veterans.

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Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
Zekk wrote:
I've always found the phenomenon of nostalgia fascinating. Why would people want to return to "the good ole days" of SS1? It is not because it was a better game, but because people have fond memories of it. If it were available today, I rather suspect that people would not play it much because it kinda sucked.

SS1 had...
The worst inventory management system ever.
No transwarpers.
No hotkeys. (the OP must not have been an engineer, or he might appreciate this instead of thumbing his nose)
No RTS-style slave controls.

Need I go on? It might be fun sometime to get people to list the things they hated about SS1 which are much better in SS2. It would be a good relief from the constant trickle of nostalgic people.



Gen1 Pokemon had
-no color
-terrible animations
-no terrain detail
-no hotkeys
-no breeding system allowing to min-max your team
-terrible inventory system
-game breaking bugs
-awful sprites
-annoying random odds based puzzles


But it was legitimately fun to play, which is why the re-release of gen1 pokemon to the Nintendo Virtual console is poised to be the most successful pokemon release since the original games in 1996. Nostalgia is not purely based on a fondness that forgets flaws. It is above all things based on inherent quality (you see people getting nostalgic about the Smurfs and making big budget movie remakes of it, but where are the snorks?).

The fact is that nostalgia clings to quality, which is why C1 hasn't been released, if what you said was true they would push it back out because everyone would immediately get tired of it and run back to C2. We both know that wouldn't happen though.


Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:12 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
Gen1 may have been awesome, but I wouldn't replay it nowadays without many quality-of-life improvements to the UI which I expect will exist in the reboot. Those are mainly what Kyp is talking about when he compares C1 and C2, if you look closely. And it would be a bit off to compare the two SS clients to the Pokemon generations. C2 is a lot closer to C1, in my opinion.

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Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:57 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
anilv wrote:
Gen1 may have been awesome, but I wouldn't replay it nowadays without many quality-of-life improvements to the UI which I expect will exist in the reboot. Those are mainly what Kyp is talking about when he compares C1 and C2, if you look closely. And it would be a bit off to compare the two SS clients to the Pokemon generations. C2 is a lot closer to C1, in my opinion.


The Gen1 re-release is not changed in any way from the original, I have been playing it and it is fantastic still.

Saying that nostalgia forgets a lot of faults is fair, but you guys like to make it seem like C1 was a giant heaping pile of shit, which it wasn't. C1 was good enough that if it was available we all know it would rob C2 of a considerable portion of the playerbase, at very least.


Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:53 am
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
It's not necessary to return to 2D, just to make the new 3D models look as good as the C1 sprites did. Most of the 3D models look like an art intern made them, not to mention the texture work.

And personally, I don't like Orthographic for anything more than the top-down orientation; depth being added to the game was pretty cool. It's why I play in Perspective, but locked to the highest rotation possible.

Then there was the C1 UI, which we can all agree was so bad it's comical. The C2 UI has issues, yes, but at least you can move things around!

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Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:24 am
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
I actually liked the C1 UI. Just add the hotkey bar to it and you'd be good to go.


Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:27 am
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
ELITE wrote:
The code is all there, but we can't go back. C2 was a lot more than just a graphical change. I'd be all for getting rid of the tilted view and forcing Orthographic all the time though.

I've been periodically removing C1 code from the server source for the last four years or so when I stumble into it (as well now, removing pre rebalance code). Regardless, C1 isn't compatible with the C2 server now (due to new network messages) and the db isn't compatible, returning to C1 means new start or loosing the last five years of both player's and our work.

juicy wrote:
I'd love to see the SS1 source code released. I hate seeing games just cease to exist, which will probably be the case here.

Oh well, I guess I'll give 2 more of a chance.

Not going to happen; the client on it's own is useless, you'd need a server too, releasing the server would expose us to possibly vulnerabilities we don't know about (yay security by obscurity).

juicy wrote:
EDIT: The Enforcer had a pretty good sprite. It had the 'simple yet good' feel, which I think is a really good art direction.

Attachment:
star sonata enforcer.png

The Enforcer style ships get a lot of flack for being too flat.
Also, turn high quality textures on and DDS textures on, it'll look much better and use less memory.

thecrazygamemaster wrote:
It's not necessary to return to 2D, just to make the new 3D models look as good as the C1 sprites did. Most of the 3D models look like an art intern made them, not to mention the texture work.

Good artists are hard to find, and cost a lot of money. Not to mention we don't want to overload users of lower end computers, although perhaps we have more wiggle room now Jey has made more optimizations.

juicy wrote:
I actually liked the C1 UI. Just add the hotkey bar to it and you'd be good to go.

The C2 UI is customizable, I was actually working on a C1 UI for C2 many years ago (around 2011 or 2012). Unfortunately I never finished it and it'll mostly be broken by now with changes from over the years. It looked roughly like this at the time

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Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:27 am
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
I thought i would like the fact that the UI is so customizable (?) but it really just makes everything a cluster fuck and pretty confusing, specially for new players. Id much rather have it how the old C1 UI was, with of course all the awesome additions C2 UI gives us (hotkeys basically). The fact that everything will be in the same spot everytime makes it easier to navigate, perhaps just giving us the option to remove them but not move them would help?

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Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:34 am
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
Blue Dwarf wrote:
Not to mention we don't want to overload users of lower end computers, although perhaps we have more wiggle room now Jey has made more optimizations.


"Lower end users".

Lazerus' computer was built/bought back in 2000-2002. It uses a crummy graphics card from 2000. He uses Windows 2000 OS. There's at most 500mb RAM in it. He considers it cutting edge technology.

That's your probably only low end user. But hey, when he doesn't antagonize Lemon into killing his bases, he subs 6 accounts.

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Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
I'd love C2 UI and functionality with C1 graphic style (and maybe music, super hyperactive electro doesn't really fit afking in sol or camping). I guess most of us agrees with that.
Turning 3d models into sprites takes very little of work compared to turning sprites into 3d models and devs have all c1 sprites so it shouldn't be much of a hassle. Still it'd be worth this effort imo.


Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:58 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
Blue Dwarf wrote:
thecrazygamemaster wrote:
It's not necessary to return to 2D, just to make the new 3D models look as good as the C1 sprites did. Most of the 3D models look like an art intern made them, not to mention the texture work.

Good artists are hard to find, and cost a lot of money. Not to mention we don't want to overload users of lower end computers, although perhaps we have more wiggle room now Jey has made more optimizations.


Yeah, you and I have discussed the ridiculous poly limits before. How "low end" are we talking? 2GB RAM and a 32mb graphics card? Intel Core 2 Duo? I'm sorry, but if you have a computer like that in 2016 you don't deserve to play video games.

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Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
Don't really need to turn it into a sprite? In Photoshop (Premium) you can just paste the old picture and the texture / sprite makes it self, you also need to have imported the 3D model.


Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:51 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
thecrazygamemaster wrote:
Blue Dwarf wrote:
thecrazygamemaster wrote:
It's not necessary to return to 2D, just to make the new 3D models look as good as the C1 sprites did. Most of the 3D models look like an art intern made them, not to mention the texture work.

Good artists are hard to find, and cost a lot of money. Not to mention we don't want to overload users of lower end computers, although perhaps we have more wiggle room now Jey has made more optimizations.


Yeah, you and I have discussed the ridiculous poly limits before. How "low end" are we talking? 2GB RAM and a 32mb graphics card? Intel Core 2 Duo? I'm sorry, but if you have a computer like that in 2016 you don't deserve to play video games.


There are SS2 players with computers even lower than that.

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Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Star Sonata 1
Can we please do something about the look of the game Blue? Its not coherent, nor is the camera angle aesthetically pleasing. If locking the angle allows you guys and gals to pretty the game up without the headache of worrying about how it looks from multiple angles, then by all means do that! Don't release the game to Steam in its current state or you will be presenting a sub par representation of what Star Sonata is, and honestly a graphical tweak that would allow you to make the game look much better doesn't make any sense not to follow through on. :(.

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