I know less of SS's long and storied history than Hober and even im aware of some bugs that caused disruption and sent people inactive or sent them packing from the game. Thats saying something!

In its current state the SS econ is floundering due in part to its top heavy structure, new blood cant reach the top because its being crushed under-boot. Sadly the players at the top are rent seekers by nature. They want the status quo because it is in their interests to ensure it never changes, in this they seal their own eventual demise.

The good news is we CAN have it both ways!

As I (and many before me) suggested a secondary server is a rather workable solution because it presents both a way for the old guard to enjoy the rightfully earned spoils of their efforts whilst giving anyone who wants to a chance to move into a new, untouched universe. The proof will be in the number of players who move vs those who stay.

This cant happen with the current player numbers, it would fragment the base too much. If, however, the steam launch does attract a large number of players we have a historic and singular chance to change the whole dynamic. If the new server tanks then transfer the players on it into the old one no harm done. But if it takes off EVERYONE has more fun, even the old guard.

It will NEVER result in a perfectly stable and equitable game, its not meant to and that is fine. The issue, as its been yaked about by many, many people over the years, is that we have compounded the issue so many times that it presents a clear and present threat the to game itself. Unwinding this is impossible, its just never going to happen to matter how many credit sinks and item sinks are introduced.

Such patchwork answers just transmute the liquid cash advantage into a permanent skill/item advantage, not a permanent fix. As Hober points out a fresh start can undo all the varied structural advantages the old guard enjoy that new players cannot attain without huge help, real world trades or plain up insane luck.

This is not about burning the old guard, they have been portrayed as somehow at fault which is not the case. They, by and large, played by the rules and were rewarded. The issue lies in the fact that if they want to continue to enjoy the game longer term they will be hardest hit by ANY changes made to combat their out sized influence on the game. This suggestion just takes it to a new level with the hope of riding the steam release to produce a workable result for everyone. If a old guard player is quite happy with how the game stands they will stay on the server and never move, easy win. If they want to take a chance they can just play both and if they enjoy the new competitiveness and hopefully dynamic server so they stick around on it and make a new universe work. No issues either way.

Vorp

It should be noted that a lot of the content at the lower levels has never been experienced by the old guard in the way it was meant to. Every time new content is released below end game the super-players can roll it with virtually no effort and do so if they bother to at all.

I suspect that playing the game from the ground up as it was 'meant' to be played will be a very different experience now compared to how they did it so long ago. In reality steam-rolling a boss isn't half as much fun as getting together with a bunch of allies and just barely defeating a tough challenges.

Games are meant to be played in the edge of control and not from a position of overwhelming superiority. Something I think the current players have forgotten

That's an emotion based argument for anyone who cares, not a single empirical fact involved =)
Vorp

why don't you start a thread and ask for people to pledge their Support for a new server that way Jeff can see the numbers. What sort of money per year do you think a second server coasts and how many subs would be break even point do you think?

40 subs would break even.

Could even repurpose the Test Server since it's rarely used as usually being outdated by 6 months. Livetest is typically up to date and should be the main "test" server.

gogogo then

1.
the only way to earn credits without a run is farming dgs which takes longer and longer so more you progress to earn the money for the builds you want to do.

i just want something i can farm with 3 people which is so boring or needs time that Multiaccounters dont like to do. Something that Mcers can do to make even more money maybe some commodies to produce a better factorie which makes them again better items to sell to Ai bases.

So i can have some of the 30- 50 b a day money they make.

Dementium is at 800 mio...

Ppieces you cant talk about anymore.


i dont care about the money that gets made everyday by colonies or Ys.
i just want a way that i can get a piece of that cake from this multiaccounters that isnt accountbound so that they cant benifit by even suping more chars.

i just want to have fun with 1-2 people without the need to sup more than 1 account.


2.

What i would like are small items that drop in runs that benifit you in the long run which you can roll for with the people that you play with.
Sure Mcers will just benifit again more from it but when 98% of all loot in the game is worthless and you have nothing to roll for in a run with 8 diffrent people which dont multiaccount or share accounts.

The level item which you could sell again to Mcers and crazy people which just want to have the highest level in game.


3.
I could just go to friends that dont play anymore too.
Share accounts with them and laugh at people who dont do it but for me thats just lazy.

Its like the bullet king in The Division and you dont take it from the game after a week because everybody does it.

If you messsage me in private chat that shareing accounts isnt allowed and i cant talk about it. Ask yourself where is the diffrence between Sharing 6 accounts between 3 people or 1 guy who owns 5 accounts and solos all content non.

Sure in the end its comes down to groups of multiaccounter which just group together so they can play a game which wasnt designed to get such small player numbers but it isnt fun for solo players to look at teams that have like 10 players but own 40 accounts.

I for one don't think a new server is the way to go. The only time I think a new server should be considered is if the current one is getting overcrowded, and atm we're nowhere near that point. It all sounds like fun and games but starting over from scratch without any kind of civilization will create so many chokepoints on so much content that it'd be a great annoyance. The game is created around it having an endgame playerbase. The best practical example I can give of this is the colony suit nerfs that the Subspace layer pushes out over time. Without any endgamers it would be at maximum negativity at all times. Then besides that there'd ofcourse be the lack of a market and economy.

I think they are on about an extra server whilst keeping the original one up for serious players. Then the grief squad crew can be be kings of it for a month or two until they realise its effort to keep up with the best players then they will ask for a third server

I really do not want anther server to break apart the activity into two different groups. People who say they want another server don't understand how much time and money we put into this one and don't want to see them running off into a new server. Keep the game how it is and add on it not break it apart.

I'm still not convinced that there is any problem. Hober and Vorp have been arguing that there is a progression problem for mid-level players. They have different perspectives but it's something like the following.

Vorp: there isn't a big enough cohort of mid-level players to progress through content the way veterans did. The SS community can be modeled as a wave going through the endgame content, with very low player density behind it. This is as may be, but would obviously be solved by… injecting a bunch of new players i.e. starting a new wave. I remain unconvinced by the arguments about relative states of the economy then and now, since players can always resort to doing things the old fashioned way (grinding content for gear) if the player-driving market is too pricey for them.

Hober: mid-level players feel sad when endgamers tell them that they are wasting their time with anything but the top gear. Since they can't obtain the top gear this week, they get super salty and whip out their credit cards instead. Never mind the fact that it took endgamers years to get all that cool stuff.

So yeah, I'm not convinced by these arguments.

Hober is QQ because he just sucks at this game. He sees the people who are making it in the game having multiple accts and he gets butthurt over it. If he was on a real team they'd show him how to make bases, advance his alts and do content in a group setting. I remember a while ago we was QQ because of how boring a shm was.....

What I don't understand is that we have people wringing their hands for all the poor mid-level players who are so impatient to get decked out in endgame goodies, and yet aren't interested in joining endgame teams and getting twinked out. As I see it, there are basically three demographics of mid-level players, and group #2 is getting an awful lot of sympathy that they don't really deserve:

1) Mid-level player is impatient to get to endgame, joins endgame team and succeeds.
2) Mid-level player is impatient to get to endgame, but doesn't join an endgame team for some reason. Gets mad that they can't somehow carry themselves to endgame in a month. This is the group Hober is championing.
3) Mid-level player has more realistic expectations about progression. Does what they can with the resources they have, takes a few years to get there but enjoys what the game has to offer along the way.

I don't see why we should want to market primarily to group #2. Those are the players who aspire to be hardcore endgamers, but aren't actually interested in either putting in the long hours to carry themselves there or befriending current endgamers who can help move the process along. Who the fuck are these people, anyway? And why exactly should SS cater to them?

Yeah, you said a bunch about bugs that have happened in the past. I just don't have anything to say to those because they seem like ancient history to me and not terribly relevant to the question of player retention today.



I disagree. The game supports plenty of play styles as long as you are happy to make incremental progress. Maybe not every class can solo James Watt with T20 gear, but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to do. You are still implicitly referring to players in group #2, those who want it all in a month but aren't interested in working for it or getting help from endgame players. The way you tell it, the average player is a delicate flower who gets mad and quits when someone else in the community says they are bad at the game. A delicate flower who is also incredibly impatient and uninterested in just playing the damn game for a while before they can be uber. I'm not sure why you are so hung up on this demographic, as it doesn't seem representative of the average gamer that we want to attract.