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Post Re: last time.
OK, I can definitely get behind the gist of what you are saying, which as far as I can tell is that there isn't a clear pipeline to sensible building practices in this game. If EF layer is too crowded as you say, don't you think that'd be addressed by opening up Warp 2 for building (maybe P2P only if you think it's necessary)?

On the matter of there being no higher tier commods in the EF layer, I don't see this as a compelling point because you can still generate credits income there (through mining and colonies), hence you can buy the commods you lack. Nowadays with /marketcheck we don't have the market inefficiency problems we used to have, so you should not have any difficulty sourcing the commods you need.

Ultimately, I think that with a few tweaks we could build a pretty good pipeline for new players to get building in Wild Space. From my perspective, I think we need about 33% more simplified bases and 67% more efficient base-building. I'm of the opinion that what would really drive an attitude shift among new players is to make the bases they use much more expendable and simple to deploy. If it only takes an hour to set up a full galaxy of industry and defense, and barely any credits to boot, then you probably don't get too upset if the thing is knocked over by another player.

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Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:23 pm
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Post Re: last time.
anilv wrote:
OK, I can definitely get behind the gist of what you are saying, which as far as I can tell is that there isn't a clear pipeline to sensible building practices in this game. If EF layer is too crowded as you say, don't you think that'd be addressed by opening up Warp 2 for building (maybe P2P only if you think it's necessary)?

On the matter of there being no higher tier commods in the EF layer, I don't see this as a compelling point because you can still generate credits income there (through mining and colonies), hence you can buy the commods you lack. Nowadays with /marketcheck we don't have the market inefficiency problems we used to have, so you should not have any difficulty sourcing the commods you need.

Ultimately, I think that with a few tweaks we could build a pretty good pipeline for new players to get building in Wild Space. From my perspective, I think we need about 33% more simplified bases and 67% more efficient base-building. I'm of the opinion that what would really drive an attitude shift among new players is to make the bases they use much more expendable and simple to deploy. If it only takes an hour to set up a full galaxy of industry and defense, and barely any credits to boot, then you probably don't get too upset if the thing is knocked over by another player.



Yes, definitely that - the available information/learning curve for base-building needs to be addressed. I love your ideas regarding that, and the idea to simplify base-building itself. For Wild Space, I don't have a problem at all with what you are suggesting... in fact, it's awesome. I believe the extractors for super rare commods should remain hard to find and a point of competition both through market pricing by players and BvB acquisition when used in Wild Space. I also have no desire to see base capping removed from Wild Space. Players should be adequately warned to store any valuable commods/gear/etc in Thatches/SS parked on AI bases and in the new storage feature if they do not wish to risk it being stolen when they build (often poorly) in Wild Space. This has been one of the main issues I found with players rage-quitting after being raided. They didn't realize how big the risk was until they lost months or years-worth of DGing/extracting/building in a couple of hours. At that point, if they felt like they've been blind-sided by how big the risk actually was, many players have simply quit... In each such case, the worst things for the game are the loss of a subscription and the loss of another player contributing to the player economy. So yes... new player education regarding proper building/defense practices, and the risks involved with building in Wild Space is imperative.

I should clarify - the EF layer is not technically too crowded at present... It has too little space remaining to facilitate building by a large number of new players, should we manage to attract them. Opening W2 in EF layer would be an excellent way to address some of this issue, and I imagine far less difficult/time-consuming to implement than my earlier suggestion. However, I do believe if it is opened to base-building, that area should be p2p only. f2p players still need an incentive to become p2p, since w2 in EF space will likely have some better planets and commods. Since it's still lower DF than most of Wild Space, it would likely solve some of the situation of commod acquisition which I spoke about - while keeping Wild Space much more attractive for those who wish to extract rare commods.

Given what you've just proposed regarding the efficiency of basic base-building/defense... how useful, simple and logical all of it is... I'm about ready to start putting up posters with "enkelin for Emp" on them. Junkyard kits, as you've already mentioned... are a fantastic avenue toward this end.

X/Y/Z gear - I don't have any problem with the resource requirements to build those. Any thoughts regarding the max workforce/time required to build them? Perhaps X should be a bit quicker to build, while keeping Y as-is, and causing Z to take a bit longer? (Balance the whole process out so it still takes approximately the same amount of time overall to get to Z gear) The scarcity of top-tier rare commods will continue to self-regulate the availability of the best and strongest bases kits/base gear, as it should be. Thank you for continuing to discuss this. Perhaps some of it may prove useful to the devs.


Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:17 am
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Post Re: last time.
Enable owning galaxies in EF. Not places like Ring, of course, but the general area should be ownable. Nobody is going to try and develop a serious production galaxy in EF if someone else can simply lay a base anywhere they want (I wouldn't either).

As an incentive to build well, spawn waves of enemies to assault owned galaxies that emulate a PvB attack. Perhaps not at full strength, but somewhere like 1/4th.

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Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:27 pm
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Post Re: last time.
thecrazygamemaster wrote:
As an incentive to build well, spawn waves of enemies to assault owned galaxies that emulate a PvB attack. Perhaps not at full strength, but somewhere like 1/4th.


That was exactly what Subspace was meant to do, but it never happened.

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Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:44 pm
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Post Re: last time.
Tomzta09 wrote:
thecrazygamemaster wrote:
As an incentive to build well, spawn waves of enemies to assault owned galaxies that emulate a PvB attack. Perhaps not at full strength, but somewhere like 1/4th.


That was exactly what Subspace was meant to do, but it never happened.

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Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:03 pm
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Post Re: last time.
Dispatched wrote:

And make base building p2p only, and expand the ef build zone to DF90-100.


Okay, bad idea. That's almost on the level of saying "Make bots p2p only". Base building is a major, major part of the game and restricting that would only make you lose subs.

Not to mention, to make any amount of money at all when you're F2P, you basically are required to create and stock a shop of your own, due to MC killing Trade chat.


Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:46 am
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Post Re: last time.
Septagon wrote:
Dispatched wrote:

And make base building p2p only, and expand the ef build zone to DF90-100.


Okay, bad idea. That's almost on the level of saying "Make bots p2p only". Base building is a major, major part of the game and restricting that would only make you lose subs.

Not to mention, to make any amount of money at all when you're F2P, you basically are required to create and stock a shop of your own, due to MC killing Trade chat.


Then make building for f2p only in w1.

Also limit their level to 150-200.


Sun May 01, 2016 6:42 am
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Post Re: last time.
What a horrible idea. This only discourages f2p's from spending any money at all. The goal is to have players spendnmoney in the game. Current best practice is micro transactions, not limiting f2p's reasons to participate.


Sun May 01, 2016 6:34 pm
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Post Re: last time.
Matt Wildfox 4 wrote:
What a horrible idea. This only discourages f2p's from spending any money at all. The goal is to have players spendnmoney in the game. Current best practice is micro transactions, not limiting f2p's reasons to participate.



If it's micro transactions, then perhaps something to let f2p's micro buy a "New" system.

I'm not sure if the universe construction can handle adding new systems once it is built, but a layer of systems where you can buy a new additional earth force (no PvP) system exclusive to you, that grows out as the universe ages, and then gets wiped out on the re-set. Limit it to 1 per player, force at least one or two "good" planets in the system so they have something to work with, and let them "own" it so only they or their team mates could build.

I'm sure many people would pay a fraction (1/5) of a sub for example, to give base building a try.


Mon May 02, 2016 10:02 am
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Post Re: last time.
I don't see how Jeff's going to get rich on $2 per gal per uni. The volume of sales that would make any difference to him would already be much greater than the server is set up to handle. Think about it: there are currently about 700 galaxies in Wild Space, of which under 200 are owned. Even if F2P purchased an additional 100 galaxies per uni, that only comes to $800 per year in revenue from the microtransaction.

Not to mention that in the current system, F2P are serious limited in how much income they can generate from territory due to a lack of trade skills. So I'm not sure anyone would be so keen to even pay for this service.

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Mon May 02, 2016 10:24 am
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Post Re: last time.
anilv wrote:
I don't see how Jeff's going to get rich on $2 per gal per uni. The volume of sales that would make any difference to him would already be much greater than the server is set up to handle. Think about it: there are currently about 700 galaxies in Wild Space, of which under 200 are owned. Even if F2P purchased an additional 100 galaxies per uni, that only comes to $800 per year in revenue from the microtransaction.

Not to mention that in the current system, F2P are serious limited in how much income they can generate from territory due to a lack of trade skills. So I'm not sure anyone would be so keen to even pay for this service.


It's not just that it's a Galaxy, its that it is a safe Galaxy they can call their own. Sure it may not be a large an income generator, but you have to admit that as someone already happy taking the risks and paying P2P prices, your not the kind of person that has a huge worry of losing all their stuff because of personal ignorance.

Right now the choice is irrelevant Kiddy pool where anyone can set up shop and interfere with what you want to do within 'your' Galaxy, or wild west where players already have up to a decade of a lead on new players and can erase them on a whim. That there is an unspoken, unofficial, and not enforced policy of leaving players alone in certain areas, is not really relevant. It only takes one impulsive or trollish player a short amount of time to ruin days/weeks of a new players work. Even if the entire current community here right now adheres to that policy, new players may, and probably will not.

Something more enjoyable and secure has to bridge the gap between kiddy pool and wild west, so that players can feel like they know enough about the basics of base and galaxy management, before they get thrown into the deep end. Many of the posts about how long it takes to get to building bases seem to indicate as much as a YEAR before you can get into that aspect of the game seriously.

Just curious, but how long do you think it takes to get decent at just setting up a profitable base and colony in EF, without taking defense into consideration.

Now, how many people even play a game for that long?


Mon May 02, 2016 12:52 pm
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Post Re: last time.
If what you want is a stepping stone between EF layer and WS, I don't see how giving people the option to purchase a 100% safe galaxy for basing is going to accomplish that. What we really need is some scaffolding of difficulty so that players learn good building practices.

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http://www.starsonata.com/features


Mon May 02, 2016 1:03 pm
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Post Re: last time.
I agree something needs to bridge the gap between soft sand and hard boulder, but I don't think anyone has really come forth with a solution that has topped mine.

New builders do not have an explanation of what happened during a Base battle (PVB or BVB) unless they were present during the battle. New builders have zero reason to actually build a coherent defense, due to laughable AI threats. New builders have a largely haphazard process of building upwards, having to DG for better kit blueprints, not knowing stats before they build anything (goes for everyone with a new item to build), and generally building alone.

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Mon May 02, 2016 1:12 pm
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Post Re: last time.
anilv wrote:
If what you want is a stepping stone between EF layer and WS, I don't see how giving people the option to purchase a 100% safe galaxy for basing is going to accomplish that. What we really need is some scaffolding of difficulty so that players learn good building practices.


How about a bit more then?

Going on the assumption that players are the best test of what can be broken.

Player can set their Galaxy to PvP at any time, so if they want a player to test it they can and get some community help.

AND/OR

A set time (x days) before reset the purchased galaxies become PvP able. Players can either pack up early before this time triggers, or see if the final product could survive the wilds.

Both of those could add an important element in either case, a fun and controlled taste of BvB and PvP action.


Mon May 02, 2016 1:38 pm
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