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Main: king kone
Level: 37 Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:36 pm Posts: 1068 |
Auxilium wrote: I'll talk to some people. Perhaps we can make them purchasable in all AI stations. Junk//Common//Rare//Heroic//Legendary Can we have Common tier missiles available at AI stations, Junk tier as common drops from weak missile slinging AI, and the rest as buildable and or boss drops? _________________ ->Aces High ->Fortes Fortuna Juvat ->Up with irons |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:08 am |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Xonok6 Level: 602 Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:31 am Posts: 861 |
I personally don't see a problem with missiles being nerfed. This among with slaves is one of the mechanics that needs to be nerfed in order for the balance to be fixed, because atm AI must be overpowered to compensate for the relative strength of missiles and RC. If such outliers were nerfed to be as capable as other things their tech, then AI could be adjusted to make sense of that, hence promoting more versatility in playstyles overall.
About this rebalance, could we do the numbers part in more than one step? I'd like to make sure this change gets done properly, so that all missiles I can access would be equally viable for their tech. E.g, I'd like to test the power of various missiles before the changes are considered complete. I bet I'm not the only one. Overall, I think missiles should AT MOST deal as much DPS as a non-compromise optimized DPS setup of that tech, or in other words, a DPS setup that is designed for DPS, but doesn't take unnecessary tradeoffs to achieve it. |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:46 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Vorporal Level: 5483 Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:24 pm Posts: 150 |
carterstrain wrote: Auxilium wrote: I'll talk to some people. Perhaps we can make them purchasable in all AI stations. Junk//Common//Rare//Heroic//Legendary Can we have Common tier missiles available at AI stations, Junk tier as common drops from weak missile slinging AI, and the rest as buildable and or boss drops? This idea I like, it makes sense and over time we can focus on getting each type of gear I to the same vein. The commonality tiers workup would be perfect to make that happen. |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:14 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4921 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
Xonok2 wrote: I personally don't see a problem with missiles being nerfed. This among with slaves is one of the mechanics that needs to be nerfed in order for the balance to be fixed, because atm AI must be overpowered to compensate for the relative strength of missiles and RC. If such outliers were nerfed to be as capable as other things their tech, then AI could be adjusted to make sense of that, hence promoting more versatility in playstyles overall. About this rebalance, could we do the numbers part in more than one step? I'd like to make sure this change gets done properly, so that all missiles I can access would be equally viable for their tech. E.g, I'd like to test the power of various missiles before the changes are considered complete. I bet I'm not the only one. Overall, I think missiles should AT MOST deal as much DPS as a non-compromise optimized DPS setup of that tech, or in other words, a DPS setup that is designed for DPS, but doesn't take unnecessary tradeoffs to achieve it. Let me let you in on a little secret: AI were as strong as they are now 10+ years ago. In fact, many AI are now weaker compared to players. Let that sink in... _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:07 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Vorporal Level: 5483 Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:24 pm Posts: 150 |
MasterTrader wrote: Let me let you in on a little secret: AI were as strong as they are now 10+ years ago. In fact, many AI are now weaker compared to players. Let that sink in... And they are still way over the players head at some levels. Its no fun to have to kite a lvl 20 fly when you are lvl 25.... At comparable lvls players should be able to rofflestomp individual AI Its more enjoyable for casual players, much better lvling wise (lvling is slow as heck compared to the gains/lvl) and if you create DGs for players to fight you must ensure they are able to do the content at a lvl where the drops are actually valuable. Vorp |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:30 pm |
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Main: king kone
Level: 37 Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:36 pm Posts: 1068 |
MasterTrader wrote: In fact, many AI are now weaker compared to players. Let that sink in... K, you find me a level 100 that can tackle 7 ragnarocks, 4 goblins, 3 basils, and 5 parsley all at once without resorting to missiles, slaves, or drones. _________________ ->Aces High ->Fortes Fortuna Juvat ->Up with irons |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:39 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4921 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
carterstrain wrote: MasterTrader wrote: In fact, many AI are now weaker compared to players. Let that sink in... K, you find me a level 100 that can tackle 7 ragnarocks, 4 goblins, 3 basils, and 5 parsley all at once without resorting to missiles, slaves, or drones. Weaker meaning that they are weaker than they used to be because players got buffed. But they still can't be taken on aggressively. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:46 pm |
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Main: king kone
Level: 37 Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:36 pm Posts: 1068 |
Goblins are actually stronger, as they get Gunner destruction. Makes fighting a group of them a massive pain in the ass.
Basils used to not have that parasite weapon or slowing laser. Parsley are unchanged. Ragnarocks got the Wall of Lead superitem. And technically the 19 AI listed are not considered a swarm, because each individual AI type has yet to reach 20. 7 =/= 20; 4 =/= 20; 3 =/= 20; 5 =/= 20. _________________ ->Aces High ->Fortes Fortuna Juvat ->Up with irons |
Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:50 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Xonok6 Level: 602 Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:31 am Posts: 861 |
@MasterTrader
I've been around since 2007. I do know very well what the strength of AI has been like over the years. Nonetheless, it is a balance concern when slaves are so strong that they are simply the best overall strategy. The same applies to missiles, but if this rebalance is done right, that part of the problem will go away. I don't know if you were trying to surprise me or something, but what you said seems obvious to me. @Vorporal I disagree. I've always liked that optimizing your setups and figuring out how to play better is a fundamental part of this game. Making AI dead simple would counter that goal. The way I envision ideal balance is that your build choices are decided by your own creativity, needs/situation and playstyle. Atm in some aspects this fails because some playstyles are flat out penalized in almost everything. |
Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:15 am |
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Member
Team:
Rank: Main: Bonehead Level: 2447 Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 5:18 pm Posts: 737 |
HOW TO BALANCE MISSILES
1. Drag missile to kiddies' playground 2. Find teeter-totter 3. Remove board from teeter-totter 4. Slide missile, nose first, onto steel balancing pipe of teeter-totter 5. Slide missile forward until tail comes off ground and stays at same height as the nose. This method is also good for balancing check books and the Federal budget. |
Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:19 am |
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Content Dev
Main: Auxilium
Level: 1 Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:36 am Posts: 40 Location: Test Server |
Bonecrusher wrote: HOW TO BALANCE MISSILES 1. Drag missile to kiddies' playground 2. Find teeter-totter 3. Remove board from teeter-totter 4. Slide missile, nose first, onto steel balancing pipe of teeter-totter 5. Slide missile forward until tail comes off ground and stays at same height as the nose. This method is also good for balancing check books and the Federal budget. Noted. Much easier than what I had in mind, thanks! |
Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:48 am |
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Content Dev
Main: Auxilium
Level: 1 Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:36 am Posts: 40 Location: Test Server |
Update: planning on removing class skills affecting Missiles by 1/3rd. Missile Mastery will remain to give full bonuses to Missiles (obviously). Note that Fighters will remain to have 1/3rd of class skills benefits.
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Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:46 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4921 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
Will that make Gunner Missiles do more damage than anyone elses?
_________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:14 am |
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Team:
Rank: Peon Main: urzaserra2 Level: 4880 Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:34 am Posts: 673 |
The already do the most damage with missiles. What that change will mean is that missiles for non gunner classes will be nerfed. Currently even with the 1/3rd skills missiles for snipers still get a decent 70ish% damage bonus.
Even without damage bonus missile for non gunners should still be a usable part of there game play. |
Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:16 am |
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Content Dev
Main: Auxilium
Level: 1 Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:36 am Posts: 40 Location: Test Server |
Over the last 2 weeks I've been working up the new stats for the missiles.
I've gone with Churchill's suggestion of basing the maximum launch range on a tech level combined with a certain range modifier. We've got low range (such as MIRVs and Bunkerbusters), midrange (most missiles) and high range (such as Lancer and Disintegrator) missiles. The modifiers I've used are: Launch Range=Tech level*100*Range modifier With the range modifers being: -Low: 0.75 -Mid: 1.0 -High: 1.75 The damage on the missiles is also scaled. Highrange missiles do approximately 25% damage less than midrange and lowrange do 25% more than midrange. Additionally, mining missiles will do 10% damage less than their other damage type equivalents at a given tech. The DPE has also been changed. Most missiles follow this formula: DPE=1.0+(0.1*techlevel). However, there are exceptions to this which you can find out about for yourself once they're released into the game |
Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:46 pm |
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