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Prawn Nerf
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=62240		 Page 1 of 12
Author:  anilv [ Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Prawn Nerf
OK, now I've gotten your attention. :P

This was brought up as a side note in another thread and received approval of the folks who responded, but I want to make sure it's brought to the entire player base as well. We would like to nerf the range on the Prawn. The reasoning is to have a tradeoff for the extra DPS that's made possible by the 4th aug. You can still get that same DPS, but now you will have to play a bit more actively or position yourself more precisely in order to deliver the DPS to your target. The specifics of the change are to put a -50% Range augmod on the Prawn hull. This may sound like a lot, so let's look at how that will affect a couple typical setups.

Assuming OS 6 or Zarkara Kostha, and AT 25:

DWatt, 2 Emp, Anger range is reduced by approximately 30% with this change.

Anger, Emp, 2 CaL (or other non-range augs) is reduced by approximately 48% with this change.

Some rando setup with no range augs at all would be reduced by exactly 50%.

We feel that these reductions are in the right ballpark in terms of not totally ruining the range of the ship, but also definitely reducing it by enough that players will notice and have to compensate somewhat in their play style. Let me know what you all think!
Author:  MasterTrader [ Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
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Author:  ELITE [ Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Oh no, I'll be down to 2.5k range :(
Author:  redalert150 [ Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Sounds a bit drastic, youll be cripiling snipers in pvp that only really have range to their advantage. Will probably see more stealth snipers around in pvp now.

As for as pvai content i dont think much will change seems like a minor inconvenience then anything else.
Author:  redalert150 [ Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Actually just realized a few things will be a pain in the ass now :lol: RIP prawn! Id be in favor of another resist nerf then this range nerf though :P
Author:  anilv [ Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
redalert150 wrote:
Actually just realized a few things will be a pain in the ass now :lol: RIP prawn! Id be in favor of another resist nerf then this range nerf though :P


I understand, but at this point Prawn Snipers are squishy enough that if we were to lean on a resist nerf to bring them into balance, it would be one of those things where we balance a very strong stat with a very weak stat. In practice, that's a bit hard to do properly since players will often find ways to avoid the negative stat entirely.
Author:  Chrono Warrior [ Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
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Author:  KonanCruss2 [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Why nothing about HM? :D
Author:  ShawnMcCall [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Kind of hurts your point that the nerf isn't that drastic when you have to throw anger augs into the mix to make it look insignificant... Good thing everyone has anger augs to throw around like Hestias, right?

Does it need a nerf? Yes. Does it need a hard -50% range... not quite. And anyway, if you're worried about active play, nerf tracking instead of range.
Author:  Antilzah [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Maybe nerf anger range slightly and something less than 50% on prawn.
Author:  anilv [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
KonanCruss2 wrote:
Why nothing about HM? :D


On further review we couldn't come up with a nerf level to range and tracking that we liked, so we decided not to change the HM at all at this point.
Author:  anilv [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Kind of hurts your point that the nerf isn't that drastic when you have to throw anger augs into the mix to make it look insignificant... Good thing everyone has anger augs to throw around like Hestias, right?

Does it need a nerf? Yes. Does it need a hard -50% range... not quite. And anyway, if you're worried about active play, nerf tracking instead of range.


I'm not making anything look insignificant… a common setup if you don't use Anger is 2 Emp 2 CaL, for which you'll see something like a -40% range reduction. The point of the change is that everyone is going to feel the nerf without it being a total knackering of the ship.

I would be happy to throw on some Tracking nerfs in addition, but I don't want to tone down the -50% Range much. If we tone that down, it quickly starts being insignificant in modern setups, defeating the purpose of the change.
Author:  anilv [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Antilzah wrote:
Maybe nerf anger range slightly and something less than 50% on prawn.


We can look into this if people like, but TBH a slight range nerf on the aug is going to be just that… slight. People will start to feel it if we slash the range augmod from the aug entirely, but that is too big of a change IMO.
Author:  ShawnMcCall [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
anilv wrote:
Antilzah wrote:
Maybe nerf anger range slightly and something less than 50% on prawn.


We can look into this if people like, but TBH a slight range nerf on the aug is going to be just that… slight. People will start to feel it if we slash the range augmod from the aug entirely, but that is too big of a change IMO.


Translates to; Sorry guys, but I use the Anger aug, can't nerf that.
Author:  ShawnMcCall [ Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prawn Nerf
Mmkay, less inflammatory version of my last comment; The Anger aug is already OP as fuck, so when you use it to say "Guys this change isn't a huge nerf" and every single example you give is with an Anger (no one uses 2 Emp/2 CAL by the way, that is just a dumb setup), then you're basically saying; we're trying to nerf this, but we're not trying to piss off people who have enough resources and accounts to leave over it. It's like Lemon just said, still rocking 2.5k range with his sniper. So you're just shitting on the little guy, because you guys are terrified of making a change that actually hits the guys with 10+ accounts.
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