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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
Has the survivability of fighters been looked at?

EDIT: I see it has.
The damage looks pretty high for the space that fighters take. Consider making fighter generators big.
Without any class bonuses I have around 120% DPS bonus on earthforce destroyer slaves, as per the augtweak rebalance. With fairly big weapons(Giga Soul Beam) that results in around 700 DPS. On an FC that gets increased by around 70% per slave, making the DPS of a slave around 1.2k.
You're telling me that a single tech 10 fighter, of which I can have 4, will deal 400 DPS? That's a bit high. A set of fighters and their bay takes around 150 space, while a setup that can power Giga Soul Beam on an FC slave is over 800 space at the very least.
Note that I didn't even consider the FC fighter bonuses, which will make it even crazier.
Fighters are the new missiles and that's a bad thing.
You can safely nerf at least the lower tech fighter damage by around half and it will still be very strong.


Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:40 am
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
"Fighters are the new missiles" only works as an argument if missiles aren't OP.

Oh wait, they still are.

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Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:10 am
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
No, it works as an argument precisely because they are. At no point should a secondary device with low investment be better than an entire setup built to compete.
Better DPE, range, DPS and DPH than weapons at most points in the game. Kinda looks like missiles. I don't want to stop using fighters just because they make everything else irrelevant, so I'm giving feedback about it NOW.


Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:56 pm
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
Xonok2 wrote:
No, it works as an argument precisely because they are. At no point should a secondary device with low investment be better than an entire setup built to compete.
Better DPE, range, DPS and DPH than weapons at most points in the game. Kinda looks like missiles. I don't want to stop using fighters just because they make everything else irrelevant, so I'm giving feedback about it NOW.


I think you make a good point about these doing very large amounts of DPS. I just want to point out that these fighters are not going to be out DPSing any end game or fully tweaked setups.

I cannot understand how your bot is only getting 1.2k DPS when you can put augmenters, modded gear, overloaders and weapons on them that have good DPS and DPE. For example, my crap tier Selenologicas are single firing and currently do between 3k and 6k DPS on my Shield Monkey. If I was a Fleet Commander with Auras available to me they would do much more.

You're also forgetting that your fighters can literally be blown up before they ever get a chance to do their full damage. The kicker, though, is that they take all of their electricity up front.

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Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:30 am
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
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Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:16 pm
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
cej1120con wrote:
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Props...

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Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
MasterTrader wrote:
Xonok2 wrote:
No, it works as an argument precisely because they are. At no point should a secondary device with low investment be better than an entire setup built to compete.
Better DPE, range, DPS and DPH than weapons at most points in the game. Kinda looks like missiles. I don't want to stop using fighters just because they make everything else irrelevant, so I'm giving feedback about it NOW.


I think you make a good point about these doing very large amounts of DPS. I just want to point out that these fighters are not going to be out DPSing any end game or fully tweaked setups.

I cannot understand how your bot is only getting 1.2k DPS when you can put augmenters, modded gear, overloaders and weapons on them that have good DPS and DPE. For example, my crap tier Selenologicas are single firing and currently do between 3k and 6k DPS on my Shield Monkey. If I was a Fleet Commander with Auras available to me they would do much more.

You're also forgetting that your fighters can literally be blown up before they ever get a chance to do their full damage. The kicker, though, is that they take all of their electricity up front.

For my FC I use destroyers with relatively low level gear. Even then, for the tech it's very much optimized so something as simple as fighters should practically never be so good compared to them. I was talking about Dachshunds, which are fighters you'd be really unlikely to use on selens. For tech 13 capital ship slaves mine are pretty close to optimal. Elec cost isn't very important for my FCs, since I fail to lose much energy anyway. So basically, the context that I was talking about WAS fully tweaked and I even counted in the augmenter rebalance that will massively improve slaves.


Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:19 am
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
So what are shop keepers supposed to do with their inventory of fighters? Some of us have a very large investment in valuable fighters. Under the current proposal, they simply lose it all. They can of course use those fighters, but they still lose their entire investment. Obviously, no one is going to buy them now that they can simply get a generator.

I don't have a solution to offer, nor do I expect that there is one to be found. But I do wish that when a change like this is being developed, that all the ramifications be considered. I'm probably going to lose 20b because of this (which to some is still a lot of money) and will be stuck with a bunch of fighters that I will probably never use.

Perhaps, it would be helpful if there was an ai base that would buy fighters and fighter packs, not currently bought and sold through bases, for a reasonable price, as was done when gear glue was phased out.


Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
Rhaithe wrote:
So what are shop keepers supposed to do with their inventory of fighters? Some of us have a very large investment in valuable fighters. Under the current proposal, they simply lose it all. They can of course use those fighters, but they still lose their entire investment. Obviously, no one is going to buy them now that they can simply get a generator.

I don't have a solution to offer, nor do I expect that there is one to be found. But I do wish that when a change like this is being developed, that all the ramifications be considered. I'm probably going to lose 20b because of this (which to some is still a lot of money) and will be stuck with a bunch of fighters that I will probably never use.

Perhaps, it would be helpful if there was an ai base that would buy fighters and fighter packs, not currently bought and sold through bases, for a reasonable price, as was done when gear glue was phased out.


Which fighters are you refering to, specifically?

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Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:53 pm
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
Would imagine he meant St. Bernards or that Juju one. FC tends to avoid stuff with splash/chain weapons not because of killing fighters, but killing slaves. Engineer has the same problem and avoids the same dgs.

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Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:42 pm
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
The issue I see with the fighter changes, and several peeps have made reference to already, is that all my fighters in storage are going to either get locked to my storage ship, or be obsolete because there will no longer be a market for the individual fighters.

Here is my solution to this problem. Have a mission that allows you to turn in groups of fighters for a fighter generator of that particular type. For instance, I bring 10 Cerberus fighters and convert them into a Cerberus fighter generator.

I propose that you do NOT lock the individual fighters for 1 full universe and give everyone a chance to convert their stock pile of fighters into fighter generators. Then, at the following uni reset....lock all individual fighters to the ship they are on.

I have a variety of fighters that I use for specific content. I currently swap them out accordingly. If you lock the fighters now, then I lose all the fighters I can not fit on my main ship. Those Cerberus fighters are each 155 size and I dont have the room for them all. If I had 3 of every fighter available on my ship, I would not have room for any gear.

We need the option to convert those fighters into fighter generators please. You cant ship lock them yet.


Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:13 pm
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Post Re: Fighter Revamp: An opportunity for Feedback.
kwilson wrote:
The issue I see with the fighter changes, and several peeps have made reference to already, is that all my fighters in storage are going to either get locked to my storage ship, or be obsolete because there will no longer be a market for the individual fighters.

Here is my solution to this problem. Have a mission that allows you to turn in groups of fighters for a fighter generator of that particular type. For instance, I bring 10 Cerberus fighters and convert them into a Cerberus fighter generator.

I propose that you do NOT lock the individual fighters for 1 full universe and give everyone a chance to convert their stock pile of fighters into fighter generators. Then, at the following uni reset....lock all individual fighters to the ship they are on.

I have a variety of fighters that I use for specific content. I currently swap them out accordingly. If you lock the fighters now, then I lose all the fighters I can not fit on my main ship. Those Cerberus fighters are each 155 size and I dont have the room for them all. If I had 3 of every fighter available on my ship, I would not have room for any gear.

We need the option to convert those fighters into fighter generators please. You cant ship lock them yet.


# of fighters for 1 gen equal to the max number that a gen can make sounds good to me. That'd be like 3 cerbs for a gen, so...

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Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm
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