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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
MasterTrader wrote:
Hey I'm all for wiping the game, the arguments you gave about why are the same I've given for a long time. But it's almost certainly not going to happen, no matter how I personally feel about it. The potential to lose massive amounts of players by doing so is a huge risk imo. I'd prefer a wipe, but I don't believe it's realistic.

I don't think it would either, which is why I think what TCGM suggested could work well, being a second server. Theres no danger in splitting a playerbase if theres no one left.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:36 pm
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
Splitting the playerbase probably isn't acceptable either. Either most people are going to go to the new server, and a bunch of players quit because all of their progress is worthless since there's no one else to compete against... or no one goes to the second server...

Tbh this is a situation where you kinda have to go with all or nothing.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:06 pm
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
Well in that case you'd have to just wipe. I seriously doubt anything will come of this, but I'd much rather make the case than not. Theres no other way to unfuck the game after a decade of bugs and exploits.

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Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:58 pm
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
Masterful wrote:
Well in that case you'd have to just wipe. I seriously doubt anything will come of this, but I'd much rather make the case than not. Theres no other way to unfuck the game after a decade of bugs and exploits.

They've gotten into this weird catch-22 situation where even though significant parts of the playerbase have said they'd support a reset or new server, they can't do it because the playerbase has shrunk to such a degree that those who would ragequit because they lost their exploited trillions or decade worth of farmed loot would kill the game. This even seems to effect when people get banned for things, in the past you could get permabanned for killing a Fuzz but these days if you exploit and get trillions or credits or do other naughty things more often than not you'll just get a slap on the wrist depending on how many accounts you have subbed.

I don't know what you guys are going to do, but you need to do something.


Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:38 pm
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
anilv wrote:
Player retention = monetization. We don't need help figuring out how to get money from our player base.


Oh the arrogance. Yes you do, you need it more than ever. A good start would be to stop destroying this game with pointless nerfs every other week. We've seen more nerfs and major (unwanted) changes to this game in the past year than every other year since SS started combined. And you do this because you think you can get away with it. Your attitude is basically this: We can do just about anything we want and nobody will do anything about it. They will bitch salt on the forum for a couple of days and then they'll move on. We can completely ruin this game and people won't bat an eyelid!

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Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:04 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
The Death of SS started very slow. It has gained massive momentum over the last few years with the influx of content dev's who are current players. They have altered the game to how they think it should be and its horrible. Enk is a good example his ignorance is insulting. The growth numbers have been inflated so much.

Then there's the issue of favoritism from certain admins to certain players. When 1 person gets a perm ban for a offense and another gets a few days that's a major issue. As for exploit reports again favoritism some people got rewards some people never even got replies to there tickets.


Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:33 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
Tomzta09 wrote:
anilv wrote:
Player retention = monetization. We don't need help figuring out how to get money from our player base.


Oh the arrogance. Yes you do, you need it more than ever.

It doesn't help he doesn't actually know what monetisation is.

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Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:21 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
I'm really not here to pick a fight. People always complain that they don't hear enough from Jeff and I'm literally handing down information from him on this matter. According to Jeff's analytics, Star Sonata has excellent player monetization (through subscriptions) compared to the industry standard. While we are definitely introducing more cosmetic and convenience microtransactions over time, we are not putting our emphasis on this because we don't have an urgent monetization issue on a per-player basis.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:24 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
anilv wrote:
I'm really not here to pick a fight. People always complain that they don't hear enough from Jeff and I'm literally handing down information from him on this matter. According to Jeff's analytics, Star Sonata has excellent player monetization (through subscriptions) compared to the industry standard. While we are definitely introducing more cosmetic and convenience microtransactions over time, we are not putting our emphasis on this because we don't have an urgent monetization issue on a per-player basis.


Do you want one?

Carry on with what you're doing and see what happens.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:10 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
A server wipe might be bring 3-10 players back and make 3-10 players quit. So whats the point?

Its pretty simple, all SS needs to put everyone on a even playing field again and do away with all the exploited creds/gear/skills is a new expansion. A expansion that introduces new currency. Not just something to replace credits, but also new skill point currency, new industrial commods.

Its what EVERY single other game does. They introduce a new expansion every so often that makes the old content pretty much irrelevant. Gives all players something new to grind for. Usually the content is available for everyone (no matter what level or gear) after they do a few story missions and get the same gear everyone else would have. Then they start their grind for the really OP stuff where the try hards can separate themselves from the filthy casuals. But everyone is basically at the same starting level once again. Subspace and even Twisted Zone had the potential to be this new expansion but the manhours it would of taken to make this is probably not something the current dev team would be able to pull off.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:20 pm
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
As you know, I have been told by some people that i can be very argumentative at times. I have sincerely replied that I was not being argumentative, that they had only seem me argumentative on a couple of occasions, and most time I am quite sincere and polite. You will now see me very argumentative.

Masterful wrote:

Completely reset economy

FOR what is possibly the hundredth time, PRICE GOUGING IS NOT INFLATION! INFLATION IS NOT PRICE GOUGING! STOP GETTING THESE TWO CONFUSED! TY!.

For laymen, Inflation (or deflation) is when the value of the currency itself is changing, resulting in all prices in the market changing. Price gouging is when a handful of commodities are either over demanded or under supplied, resulting in a few prices changing while most remain constant. The test for this is quite simple, you take a sample of basic commodities and see if they are notably different.


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SO as anyone with two functioning brain cells should be able to understand, what we are seeing IS NOT INFLATION! Further, given our current playerbase, I cannot imagine that over demand is the reason for the prices the OP is complaining about. Thus, the problem must be under supply....WHICH WIPING THE SERVER WILL ONLY MAKE WORSE! The items which are over prices have two driving factors behind that; 1 no clear area to harvest the item (IE Convo II) or 2 Lockouts restricting harvesting. Wiping the server will result in all existing supply vanishing, MASSIVE increase in demand, and EXACTLY the same supply problem remaining. Unless your goal is for COnvo II's to hit 20 billion each, this is not a solution to the current problem.


Masterful wrote:
Overpowered gear gone

The last time i checked, the problem with Bindoed gear was the ability to people to equip 30+ weapons with Forceful/Evil/Overclocked mods on them and have them stack...which the patch is fixing. As much as I disagree with enkine sometimes, I would frankly be STUNNED if he was so jaw droppingly incompetent as to implement a new bindo system that is grossly under powered compared to legacy gear IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO A STEAM RELEASE. I would also consider any such move grounds for petitioning for a full dev team rehire. Which I am certain no one on the dev team wants, so what you are doing here is at best Begging The Question.


Masterful wrote:
Balance issues

We had, last fall, a player on DSF named Dullah. DUllah was a veteran player who rejoined around augest, and withing a month had gotten a half dozen characters to F2P cap. By the time Uni reset in October, he had something in the range of 20+ F2P maxed ACCOUNTS and set up a solo operation building over 1000 EF ships in the first two months of the uni. I might have the timeline wrong there, but the point it, it will not take experienced players long at all to get back to tech 21, nor to get multiple Accounts up and running. The limiting factor is NOT access to materials, it is the knowledge of where to go to get what you want.

Masterful wrote:
Reduced effectiveness of Multiclienting

Allow me to repeat myself. We had, last fall, a player on DSF named Dullah. Dullah was a veteran player who rejoined around augest, and withing a month had gotten a half dozen characters to F2P cap. By the time Uni reset in October, he had something in the range of 20+ F2P maxed ACCOUNTS and set up a solo operation building over 1000 EF ships in the first two months of the uni. I might have the timeline wrong there, but the point it, it will not take experienced players long at all to get back to tech 21, nor to get multiple Accounts up and running. The limiting factor is NOT access to materials, it is the knowledge of where to go to get what you want.

Masterful wrote:
Monetisation method & abilities

Wiping the game is not necessary to do this. Non Sequiter.

Masterful wrote:
New players won't be put off by endgame players and developer teams

If this was a legitimate problem, a very large number of exceedingly popular games would be out of business. The problem, as I have repeatedly argued, is that new players have to fight their way through older players to get to the same level. The fact that you can only build tech 20 ships in wild space is like players in world of tanks having to fight in teir 10 battles to get tier 7 tanks. This is an easy fix, which has already been agreed to (making the lower end t20 ships mission acquirable, but was never implemented. I can think of about a dozen other solution, none of which involve or require wiping the server. Again, non sequiter.

I have seen half a dozen servers do full wipes, and i have never seen one survive it. The old playerbase leaves the game en mass, leaving burning reviews on the way out. We all know you are not coming back masterful, there is a full ban waiting for you due to your post in that "Confesions" thread. Stop trying to wreck the game for everyone else on your way out the door, ty.

This has been a friendly reminder of what me being salty looks like...apparently I have to do these every so often or people forget.

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Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:05 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
redalert150 wrote:
A server wipe might be bring 3-10 players back and make 3-10 players quit. So whats the point?

Its pretty simple, all SS needs to put everyone on a even playing field again and do away with all the exploited creds/gear/skills is a new expansion. A expansion that introduces new currency. Not just something to replace credits, but also new skill point currency, new industrial commods.


That's actually a very good idea. It's probably the only way you're going to deal with the current issue with credits without a reset.

To those of you who are still in denial about the issue of inflation and the absurd number of trillions in the game, look no further than the fact that more people are trying to sell credits than ever & more people are trying to sell ingame items for real life cash rather than credits because they are becoming worthless to some.

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Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:26 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
Tomzta09 wrote:

To those of you who are still in denial about the issue of inflation and the absurd number of trillions in the game, look no further than the fact that more people are trying to sell credits than ever & more people are trying to sell ingame items for real life cash rather than credits because they are becoming worthless to some.


IF people WHERE trying to sell credits for real money it would mean credits are worth real money, IE they have value. Which of course no one would be trying to do, as certain people would have to intervene, CoughenkineCough. Your theoretical example disproves your own argument.

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Last edited by lrellok on Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:52 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
whats this "issue with credits" you speak of

i would disagree , credit sellers were more prevalent in the past as money had some value. you would be better off buying object directly for RL cash.

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Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:35 am
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Post Re: It's time to wipe the server
lrellok wrote:
As you know, I have been told by some people that i can be very argumentative at times. I have sincerely replied that I was not being argumentative, that they had only seem me argumentative on a couple of occasions, and most time I am quite sincere and polite. You will now see me very argumentative.

Masterful wrote:

Completely reset economy

FOR what is possibly the hundredth time, PRICE GOUGING IS NOT INFLATION! INFLATION IS NOT PRICE GOUGING! STOP GETTING THESE TWO CONFUSED! TY!.

For laymen, Inflation (or deflation) is when the value of the currency itself is changing, resulting in all prices in the market changing. Price gouging is when a handful of commodities are either over demanded or under supplied, resulting in a few prices changing while most remain constant. The test for this is quite simple, you take a sample of basic commodities and see if they are notably different.


Image

SO as anyone with two functioning brain cells should be able to understand, what we are seeing IS NOT INFLATION! Further, given our current playerbase, I cannot imagine that over demand is the reason for the prices the OP is complaining about. Thus, the problem must be under supply....WHICH WIPING THE SERVER WILL ONLY MAKE WORSE! The items which are over prices have two driving factors behind that; 1 no clear area to harvest the item (IE Convo II) or 2 Lockouts restricting harvesting. Wiping the server will result in all existing supply vanishing, MASSIVE increase in demand, and EXACTLY the same supply problem remaining. Unless your goal is for COnvo II's to hit 20 billion each, this is not a solution to the current problem.


Masterful wrote:
Overpowered gear gone

The last time i checked, the problem with Bindoed gear was the ability to people to equip 30+ weapons with Forceful/Evil/Overclocked mods on them and have them stack...which the patch is fixing. As much as I disagree with enkine sometimes, I would frankly be STUNNED if he was so jaw droppingly incompetent as to implement a new bindo system that is grossly under powered compared to legacy gear IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO A STEAM RELEASE. I would also consider any such move grounds for petitioning for a full dev team rehire. Which I am certain no one on the dev team wants, so what you are doing here is at best Begging The Question.


Masterful wrote:
Balance issues

We had, last fall, a player on DSF named Dullah. DUllah was a veteran player who rejoined around augest, and withing a month had gotten a half dozen characters to F2P cap. By the time Uni reset in October, he had something in the range of 20+ F2P maxed ACCOUNTS and set up a solo operation building over 1000 EF ships in the first two months of the uni. I might have the timeline wrong there, but the point it, it will not take experienced players long at all to get back to tech 21, nor to get multiple Accounts up and running. The limiting factor is NOT access to materials, it is the knowledge of where to go to get what you want.

Masterful wrote:
Reduced effectiveness of Multiclienting

Allow me to repeat myself. We had, last fall, a player on DSF named Dullah. Dullah was a veteran player who rejoined around augest, and withing a month had gotten a half dozen characters to F2P cap. By the time Uni reset in October, he had something in the range of 20+ F2P maxed ACCOUNTS and set up a solo operation building over 1000 EF ships in the first two months of the uni. I might have the timeline wrong there, but the point it, it will not take experienced players long at all to get back to tech 21, nor to get multiple Accounts up and running. The limiting factor is NOT access to materials, it is the knowledge of where to go to get what you want.

Masterful wrote:
Monetisation method & abilities

Wiping the game is not necessary to do this. Non Sequiter.

Masterful wrote:
New players won't be put off by endgame players and developer teams

If this was a legitimate problem, a very large number of exceedingly popular games would be out of business. The problem, as I have repeatedly argued, is that new players have to fight their way through older players to get to the same level. The fact that you can only build tech 20 ships in wild space is like players in world of tanks having to fight in teir 10 battles to get tier 7 tanks. This is an easy fix, which has already been agreed to (making the lower end t20 ships mission acquirable, but was never implemented. I can think of about a dozen other solution, none of which involve or require wiping the server. Again, non sequiter.

I have seen half a dozen servers do full wipes, and i have never seen one survive it. The old playerbase leaves the game en mass, leaving burning reviews on the way out. We all know you are not coming back masterful, there is a full ban waiting for you due to your post in that "Confesions" thread. Stop trying to wreck the game for everyone else on your way out the door, ty.

This has been a friendly reminder of what me being salty looks like...apparently I have to do these every so often or people forget.


So, okay, first of all that was an eyesore to read because of the mix of obnoxious text coloring and random caps for emphasis (when you do that too much, it actually loses its effect you know).

As far as I can tell, most people who are calling for a 'wipe of the server' more often than not agree that it would be a bad decision and that the better course of action would be setting up a second, new server. This is something done in many MMOs out there, the only real counterargument that's been given for something like this would be that it would split the playerbase, which wouldn't be a particular problem if the Steam release brought in a few hundred new players.

Your comments on inflation are mostly accurate, however over the past 6 or so years I have noticed small increases in the prices for everything but the most oversaturated, common items. It hasn't been a real problem though. The problem here is, you seem to be misunderstanding that most people around here don't exactly mean inflation when they say inflation. People in SS seem to use inflation as a sort of generic term for "anything and everything that's resulting from the countless trillions that have been pumped into the economy by either colonies or exploits."

As for your story about your teammate, it seems to me that he either leveled that many characters that quickly by either AFK farming, or playing something like 8 hours a day. Nothing can be done about the latter, NEETs gonna NEET, but a simple AFK timer would negate the former. I've also been told that an AFK timer would be a pain for people who MC. It seems like MCing would slowly die out anyway if the playerbase had enough people to regularly do runs and things.

The whole idea people seem to have behind the server wipe/parallel server is for people to be placed on an equal footing, at least at the start. Will more experienced players have an advantage? Of course, and what's wrong with that exactly? You don't seem to understand just how much time it takes to create a T20 or god forbid T21 ship from scratch, as it would be in the case of a new server going up at around the time of a steam launch. Currently, everything that's manufactured is built upon the foundations of people who have played in the past and quit for the most part. It's built on their accounts, the vast amounts of materials they've stored, and so on. A new server would make that a struggle, and make it exciting.

Edit: Also, I'd like to say that considering that Masterful actually has experience with game development and balancing, I highly doubt that he's "trying to wreck the game on his way out" like you claim. I'd also say that considering this, he probably knows more than you do and snide snipes at him do nothing but make you look petty and small.


Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:04 am
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