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Post I Bet A Dev Meeting On BvB Was Called After Traders Lost BvB
Look, I'm all for sitting in Sol and spamming the global chats with "SS DED GAEM RIP 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019" but I at least like to shitpost with a decent foundation.

"But John the economy is screwed because of so much bugs and exploiting"
Who is this affecting? I've been back around a bit during March-June, and I have to say I'm not seeing this "fucked economy" that I'm hearing so much about.

"But John it's affecting new players!"
Before I subbed a month on my p2p, I played on an f2p character without any aid from my p2p assets. I played on it for quite awhile and found it actually really easy to make enough money to find and purchase gear I need from player shops.

By the way, player shops seemed to still be around selling low tech augmenters and equipment that your average newbies might need, at prices that were very unexpectedly low given all the talk of a ruined economy that's been spewed into my ear holes.

"But the ENDGAME economy!"
Do you mean people already at endgame or people getting to the endgame?
"Uhh.... both?"
Well as a player already at endgame I had a pretty easy time FULLY gearing up 2 Mastodon slaves within a few hours of re-subbing my P2P.

And uh... with prospecting, colonies, etc, that new people can learn and use (of which I had been doing on my f2p), there really isn't a shortage of ways to make money to buy things you need. So unless you're a new player who really wants to amass trillions of credits to spend on nothing, I don't see you having a problem.

"Ok ok ok, but what about the people who've amassed trillions of credits through exploiting and bugs and botting!"
Yeah, having amassed a stockpile of 1000 Ada kits you can throw around in BvB whenever you want (not to name names) can kind of be abusive to the game, but there's been some balance around it lately to help. Maybe this could be improved upon a bit, but I don't see it as a super huge threat. Especially with junkyard kits making bases cheap and expendable for the poorer, lazier, or more casual players.

"And the bugs and exploits and botting too!"
There's been mass bannings and accounts being wiped over these things. Actions are taken, and even if a little bit has slipped into the economy I haven't really seen it hurting the economy (as mentioned earlier)

"Well, those rich old players, they have tons of OP modded gear! It's bad for the game!"
You mean it's bad for them right? How does it affect some new players? Are they gonna be sad they can't do content that someone who has played the game for 5+ years can?
Perhaps the upcoming mod rework might mitigate this anyway.

"But John...... MULTICLIENTING!!!!!!! is BAD!"
boiii I got 2 accounts and I have a hard time running both at once. I don't know about you but if someone has the patience and focus to handle 3, 4, 5 accounts or more at once without botting, then by all means let them go because those people are few and far between and they haven't affected me and my gameplay. They don't stop me from having fun.

"But JOHN people are using MCing to build up alts! We must wipe the server so they can't do that anymore!"
You mean we must wipe the server so they can't do that ever again until the next time they do that again? They'll just get a powerful character again and have an easy alt building again. Maybe we should wipe the server every couple weeks then.

"John stop dismissing my concerns"
Well then stop having stupid ones. Do you even play the game?

"But JOHN!! then this game won't make money!"
It's a pretty addicting game. The problem I see is that no one's heard of it and it needs advertising.

That said, also be aware MMOs are in a low period, as the biggest thing right now are MOBAs (Rocket League, Overwatch, etc... there's lots of popular games right now that are MOBAs).

"BUT JOHNNNNNNNN players are gonna be scared off by the dev team!"
I remember when SOFA-KING complained about EF being the "damb admin team."
Yeah the game's dev team does feel a bit Traders-heavy right now, I wouldn't mind that being spread out a bit more. IMO a team with a lot of the game's devs is only OK if they are NEVER an aggressive team.

"BUT JOOHHHHHHNNNNNNNN even Hober agrees we need a server wipe!"
You mean the guy who molested all of our MF bots that have been so prized for years? Yeah alright.

"but but but THE NEXUS IS SCREWED"
The nexus in C1 was pretty basic and easy to understand, I M O. But the current nexus isn't any more complicated than the introductions for other games I really enjoy.

"well you just think this game is perfect don't you, you pretentious arrogant piece of shit"

Sometimes I feel like there's too much going on my screen, as if it's too busy, and it makes it difficult to focus. I preferred the starry backgrounds of C1 which was easier on the eyes to focus with.

I think the game could use a better ambient lighting system.

I think the chatbox should be movable. I think we should be able to more easily dock and fit windows and dialogues.

I think some different available color themes for the client could help let people find one that agrees with their eyes. Sometimes the dark theme is good, sometimes I'd like a lighter one.

Obviously the game has had some hackers and botters. That is a problem. But solutions are plentiful and I think the admins and devs can handle it.

Early on some classes used to be weaker than others at low levels. This is still a bit true, though it has been eased a bit from the recent skill system changes.

A lot of people I see complaining are bored endgamers (a consequence of literally every game), or are people who haven't played the game in awhile, or people who need to go start a new account and try playing through the game on their own a bit.

I'm all for sitting in Sol spamming DED GAEM but if you're going to sit there and tell me literally everything is wrong with this game and it's given you cancer after they've nerfed all your valid characters into the ground, then I Think Things Are Worse Than You Think They Are

edit1: typo
edit2: forgot to say what the edit was for

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I would like to think the line "excuse me but can I get a shitpost?" is fairly polite.


Last edited by cej1120con on Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:54 am, edited 4 times in total.

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:40 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
this game sucks now RIP StarSonata


Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:41 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
cej1120con wrote:
I'm all for sitting in Sol spamming DED GAEM but if you're going to sit there and tell me literally everything is wrong with this game and it's given you cancer, then I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are


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Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:52 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
quality post commander wrongson

all things are solved with >n


Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:51 am
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
I'll have a punt at it, why not?

cej1120con wrote:
Look, I'm all for sitting in Sol and spamming the global chats with "SS DED GAEM RIP 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019" but I at least like to shitpost with a decent foundation.

"But John the economy is screwed because of so much bugs and exploiting"
Who is this affecting? I've been back around a bit during March-June, and I have to say I'm not seeing this "fucked economy" that I'm hearing so much about. I think what people mean when they say the economy is screwed is massive amounts of inflation to the point where people are actually doing RLTs for gear over credits. Some could blame this on colonies, others will blame it on ICs. Though the elephant in the room would be several major exploits over the years that have pumped tens of trillions of credits into the game which were not taken out or destroyed. So that's how exploiting has screwed the economy up.

"But John it's affecting new players!"
Before I subbed a month on my p2p, I played on an f2p character without any aid from my p2p assets. I played on it for quite awhile and found it actually really easy to make enough money to find and purchase gear I need from player shops. You have to remember John, that was at a very different time in SS when not so many people were multi-trillionaires who decide to set prices on shops to be literally anything because everyone has so much money. When you and myself were low level it was a lot easier. If you look at some of the outrageous prices on shops these days compared to what they were 7-10 years ago, it's laughable in comparison.

By the way, player shops seemed to still be around selling low tech augmenters and equipment that your average newbies might need, at prices that were very unexpectedly low given all the talk of a ruined economy that's been spewed into my ear holes. The most basic of items you do still find are sold dirt cheap due to how common they are. Some of the more useful and higher tier items you could make the argument are in fact overpriced. There is also the argument that there were much more players around at the time and therefore more teams for the lowbies to help one another out. There are hardly any today.

"But the ENDGAME economy!"
Do you mean people already at endgame or people getting to the endgame? My personal opinion is it's more fucked for those who want to reach endgame T22.
"Uhh.... both?"
Well as a player already at endgame I had a pretty easy time FULLY gearing up 2 Mastodon slaves within a few hours of re-subbing my P2P. I agree, it didn't take me very long to get hold of a Vazi (about 3 days) and some fully augged, fully geared slaves with fighters on them for when I get bored on my Sniper (1 day). But the fact that FC is one of the more easier & popular classes to play and therefore there is always an abundance of gear being sold on the market contributes to the easiness e.g. Mastodons were being mass sold practically as soon as they were added.

And uh... with prospecting, colonies, etc, that new people can learn and use (of which I had been doing on my f2p), there really isn't a shortage of ways to make money to buy things you need. So unless you're a new player who really wants to amass trillions of credits to spend on nothing, I don't see you having a problem.

"Ok ok ok, but what about the people who've amassed trillions of credits through exploiting and bugs and botting!"
Yeah, having amassed a stockpile of 1000 Ada kits you can throw around in BvB whenever you want (not to name names) can kind of be abusive to the game, but there's been some balance around it lately to help. Maybe this could be improved upon a bit, but I don't see it as a super huge threat. Especially with junkyard kits making bases cheap and expendable for the poorer, lazier, or more casual players. I refer to what I said earlier about the credit exploits which have injected stupendous amounts of money into the game to the point where you have more multi trillionaires in the game now than at any point - you could argue that it was going to happen at some point, which it would but everyone would gradually be moving up into that area of wealth, this happened all of a sudden with a few people generating hundreds of trillions and distributing it around. It was never removed. The bindomite exploits you could say have also left a mark, where you have a few accounts having insanely powerful NBed items on board which will always give them an unfair advantage, but luckily there aren't many of those accounts and they will disappear in time. I personally hold the view that the whole Demented-Bana-Ada system of bases needs to be completely scrapped and replaced with something simple which offers bases as basic attack/defense only & if you want to actually do some damage, you need players for it. The developers on Traders who have accumulated 1000+ Ada kits over the years will be triggered by that.

"And the bugs and exploits and botting too!"
There's been mass bannings and accounts being wiped over these things. Actions are taken, and even if a little bit has slipped into the economy I haven't really seen it hurting the economy (as mentioned earlier) Wiping the accounts is a relatively new thing and has only been done on those who abused the AI gear. Some who were guilty of the credit exploit have been banned and allowed back to the game. They didn't however, delete the credits that had been spawned from the exploit (because it had spread all over the place like cancer).

"Well, those rich old players, they have tons of OP modded gear! It's bad for the game!"
You mean it's bad for them right? How does it affect some new players? Are they gonna be sad they can't do content that someone who has played the game for 5+ years can?
Perhaps the upcoming mod rework might mitigate this anyway. I said something about how this was slightly bad earlier but it isn't as bad as people say it is when you look at the big picture when these players move on and new players replace them. But for that to work, you will need a purge of the current developers because all they've currently done is turned the game from a sandbox to a basket case.

"But John...... MULTICLIENTING!!!!!!! is BAD!"
boiii I got 2 accounts and I have a hard time running both at once. I don't know about you but if someone has the patience and focus to handle 3, 4, 5 accounts or more at once without botting, then by all means let them go because those people are few and far between and they haven't affected me and my gameplay. They don't stop me from having fun. Multiclienting is only seen as bad now because of the ever declining playerbase. Multiclienting has been a thing since C1 (e.g. goett), the problem is since C2 came in, we saw about half the playerbase disappear overnight & that left a massive gap in the playerbase for people to actually work together and do runs together. The bigger teams at the time got along fine, but for the smaller teams there were less people to do runs with, less people to play the game with, so you saw people buying and stocking up accounts and learning to multiclient. Now you can listen to the bullshit some of the devs pull out of their arse when they say lots of people have been joining the game, but we've all seen the playerbase decline even more since C2 was launched to the point where 70% of runs are now done solely by one maybe two people MCing. I'm not saying MCing is bad, I'm saying it's a consequence of a declining playerbase.

"But JOHN people are using MCing to build up alts! We must wipe the server so they can't do that anymore!"
You mean we must wipe the server so they can't do that ever again until the next time they do that again? They'll just get a powerful character again and have an easy alt building again. Maybe we should wipe the server every couple weeks then. Absolutely not. I am opposed to a complete wipe of the server, a magic reset button is not going to fix anything other than put everybody on the same footing for a short period of time & then you will be back to where you began. The server wipe might fix issues like the one with credits but that's it.

"John stop dismissing my concerns"
Well then stop having stupid ones. Do you even play the game? I don't know how to respond to this one. Most of these are legitimate concerns.

"But JOHN!! then this game won't make money!"
It's a pretty addicting game. The problem I see is that no one's heard of it and it needs advertising. The Reddit Invasion (as its called) brought hundreds of people to the game and only a handful of them actually stayed. The game is very stagnant right now. It's addictive for those who are willing to put the effort into it but it's getting further and further away from being simple and this is one of the things driving me insane. Recently the devs have decided that the problem is the start of the game is far too complicated and we need to make it more simple. What they've done is taken a system that was fine (you started off in a small ship in a dead end galaxy and you gradually progressed through missions) and made it worse with all this pirate vs earthforce nonsense and going over the top with the graphics in the Nexus. To try and solve this, rather than going back to the old system they basically turned missions in the Nexus region into a welfare state where you basically get handed out free XP and credits in large amounts.

That said, also be aware MMOs are in a low period, as the biggest thing right now are MOBAs (Rocket League, Overwatch, etc... there's lots of popular games right now that are MOBAs).

"BUT JOHNNNNNNNN players are gonna be scared off by the dev team!"
I remember when SOFA-KING complained about EF being the "damb admin team."
Yeah the game's dev team does feel a bit Traders-heavy right now, I wouldn't mind that being spread out a bit more. IMO a team with a lot of the game's devs is only OK if they are NEVER an aggressive team. I don't think scared by the dev team is accurate. It's probably the fact that they seem to have their own warped view of how the game should be and are determined to get it to that point regardless of what people tell them about their terrible decisions (reminds me of the European Union). EF at the time did have a heavy dev-admin bias around when SOFA-KING was making the complaints. Today, the dev team IS Traders heavy, it IS mostly two people on Traders making these crackpot decisions unannounced and it's often because some players have kicked their arses at the game. See david3000 and Sam on RE for further info.

"BUT JOOHHHHHHNNNNNNNN even Hober agrees we need a server wipe!"
You mean the guy who molested all of our MF bots that have been so prized for years? Yeah alright. You mean the guy who was so frustrated about not being able to get a Nightfury's Anger that he added a whole range of easily-obtainable augs to compensate for it? Yeah alright. As I said earlier they have their own little warped views. A server wipe is not the solution.

"but but but THE NEXUS IS SCREWED"
The nexus in C1 was pretty basic and easy to understand, I M O. But the current nexus isn't any more complicated than the introductions for other games I really enjoy. Well at least we agree on The Nexus. I would personally love to see the old Nexus come back as it was far simpler. That isn't nostalgia speaking either.

"well you just think this game is perfect don't you, you pretentious arrogant piece of shit"

Sometimes I feel like there's too much going on my screen, as if it's too busy, and it makes it difficult to focus. I preferred the starry backgrounds of C1 which was easier on the eyes to focus with. This is one of my bigger arguments on the Nexus, it is very graphics heavy, almost too much. As if they're trying to say "oh look at all these pretty colours!! aren't they amazing??". I know you can turn them off with "/lkc rmbg 0" but I find backgrounds in general to be slightly painful to the eyes. I'm talking about of course the endless cloudy/misty backgrounds that go on forever and in some cases, the ones which look like the insides of a beehive.

I think the game could use a better ambient lighting system. Agreed.

I think the chatbox should be movable. I like it being in the bottom left, but it should be draggable, or maybe even give it an X for those who want to be antisocial? I think we should be able to more easily dock and fit windows and dialogues.

I think some different available color themes for the client could help let people find one that agrees with their eyes. Sometimes the dark theme is good, sometimes I'd like a lighter one. Would you say the standard blue layout from C1 would fit that?

Obviously the game has had some hackers and botters. That is a problem. But solutions are plentiful and I think the admins and devs can handle it. Don't count on it when some devs have been found guilty of knowing all about it and turning a blind eye to it.

Early on some classes used to be weaker than others at low levels. This is still a bit true, though it has been eased a bit from the recent skill system changes. In time this will hopefully change.

A lot of people I see complaining are bored endgamers (a consequence of literally every game), or are people who haven't played the game in awhile, or people who need to go start a new account and try playing through the game on their own a bit.

I'm all for sitting in Sol spamming DED GAEM but if you're going to sit there and tell me literally everything is wrong with this game and it's given you cancer, then I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are Having made five F2p accounts when I got seriously bored of the game, unfortunately there are a lot of issues that just get ignored whenever someone tries to bring them up & discuss them. These days the devs will just use their favourite buzzword which is "salty" right now and dismiss every possible criticism you have of them. They have their own little agenda and are frankly not interested in what anyone has to say about it. They see older players as a barrier that will in time just leave the game and they will be replaced with newer players when their beloved steam release comes, who won't be so critical of their decisions because they will not know how to use the forums to complain.


edit1: typo
edit2: forgot to say what the edit was for

Good points and criticisms of peoples shit arguments. My favorite being the server wipe which is currently treated as some kind of revelation of Star Sonata where the result will be a land where everything is perfect.

Legend speaks of adum returning to the universe of Star Sonata who will come to save his game from the evil changes of the current developers and the capitalist exploiters under the watch of the false god Jeff Landauer. He will come for his people, he will press the reset button which will trigger a fiery apocalypse to the universe never seen before. Those who chose to follow the false god Jeff_L, the developers, the exploiters, the wrongdoers, the liars, the botters, the griefers will be cast into the nothingness. The false god Jeff_L is also cast into the eternal void. He and his followers are still in torment, day and night forever and ever. Because the void is an eternal place of conscious fiery torment for those who insult the one true god. Finally, the new universe will be created, this time controlled by the holy father himself. There will no longer be any bugs or exploits or infinite credits or unbalance or corrupt developers, botting, angry forum posts or mentions of saltiness. Only those who have faith in adum's server reset button can enter this perfect universe to live eternally with adum who sits in his palace on his throne with his high prophet.

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:08 am
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
I felt that playing as an f2p, and leveling up from 0 to 1000, was a lot easier today than it was when I first started, and I think the game is easier and smoother now to level up and to make money. At no point did I feel like I wished I could cap infernos again.

I really do think the Nexus should be reverted back to the state it was in 2008/2009. It was clean and simple.


Also, as far as the graphics goes, C2 has always felt like the screen is really, really busy for some reason, compared to C1.

Old image from C1: http://i.imgur.com/RDaLYpL.png

The background is pretty clearly depicted, all ships, drones, and bases are bright and stand out clearly, there's no background nonsense like clouds, or multiple layers of stars to confuse what's going on. It looks pretty but it's too busy for a game.

Better ambient lighting, and less bullshit in the background would really help this game's on-screen appearance and emulate what was good about C1 graphics without leaving what's good about C2 graphics.

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I would like to think the line "excuse me but can I get a shitpost?" is fairly polite.


Last edited by cej1120con on Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:42 am
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
Tomzta09 wrote:
"BUT JOOHHHHHHNNNNNNNN even Hober agrees we need a server wipe!"
You mean the guy who molested all of our MF bots that have been so prized for years? Yeah alright. You mean the guy who was so frustrated about not being able to get a Nightfury's Anger that he added a whole range of easily-obtainable augs to compensate for it? Yeah alright. As I said earlier they have their own little warped views. A server wipe is not the solution.
I didn't make the augs because I couldn't get a Nightfury's Anger... Raging Dio is already pretty close to a Night Fury's Anger as it is. These augs just gave you access to really powerful stats without the other utility stats like Shield Bank, Range, etc. :roll: I don't even use those augs because I prefer utility stats... :lol:

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:45 am
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
hober i love u pls revert mf bot chang thank

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:47 am
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
cej1120con wrote:
hober i love u pls revert mf bot chang thank


K will unnerf them a little, gotta go through dev team first.

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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
This is some high quality forum content. (Let me know where you want your payment, jv2).

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Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:21 am
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
tl;dr
I've been asking for a fresh start by either full wipe or new server since like 2014-2015. Economy is fucked up, bugs caused damage that can't be reversed without doing a full wipe, filtering out the old players is also a plus. Many of the old players wouldn't be able to get to the "so top with many accounts" again without having their "top alts to help them level". But well, I'm just an endgame player with some accounts who played mainly for trading (and later only for botting because trading got all fucked up), with just a little experience with MMO games even though I used to live off them, played only "a few" games other than SS. too long; cba to type, just go read my old posts related to this

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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
how is the economy fucked up oh shitlord, please elaborate?


Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:55 am
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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
sabre198 wrote:
how is the economy fucked up oh shitlord, please elaborate?


the white wizard wrote:
too long; cba to type, just go read my old posts related to this


Did you miss your reading lessons in elementary school, or did you not get them yet?

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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
cej1120con wrote:
Also, as far as the graphics goes, C2 has always felt like the screen is really, really busy for some reason, compared to C1.

Old image from C1: http://i.imgur.com/RDaLYpL.png

The background is pretty clearly depicted, all ships, drones, and bases are bright and stand out clearly, there's no background nonsense like clouds, or multiple layers of stars to confuse what's going on. It looks pretty but it's too busy for a game.

Better ambient lighting, and less bullshit in the background would really help this game's on-screen appearance and emulate what was good about C1 graphics without leaving what's good about C2 graphics.


Please make this happen. The cloudy background BS is awful.

MasterTrader wrote:
I didn't make the augs because I couldn't get a Nightfury's Anger... Raging Dio is already pretty close to a Night Fury's Anger as it is. These augs just gave you access to really powerful stats without the other utility stats like Shield Bank, Range, etc. :roll: I don't even use those augs because I prefer utility stats... :lol:


Of course you didn't. Just like The Vert *cough* Thermal *cough didn't create PPS entirely for his own benefit as a mass MCer. Just like the Twisted Death aug wasn't touched in the same way the Reaver and the Hantr Psu were in the most recent patch due to the gentlemen behind the nerf coincidently happen to use them... :roll:

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Post Re: I Don't Think Things Are As Bad As You Think They Are
anilv wrote:
FYI the dev team's current design philosophy regarding critical hits is that it should not be commonplace for setups to approach 100% critical chance. The stat has suffered a lot of inflation due to being placed in large values on augmenters and its introduction on the Super Intelligent modification. Consequently, we were seeing many DPS setups approach 100% crit chance. Critical hits were always intended to be relatively rare and powerful, not commonplace and mediocre.

Our current policy is pretty simple: don't put crit chance on random items anymore (ahem, Mzungu Cloak), and keep it to 10% on ship hulls and 20% on augmenters. By contrast, crit strength is allowed in any (reasonable) amount. This has been working pretty well for newly created endgame content, but we found that players would resort to using these old augs that were created before the policy went in. The changes to Arsonist's and Hantr Psu should be close to DPS-neutral (depends on setup), while the change to Reaver is a straight nerf because the aug was way too strong.


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Last edited by DarkSteel on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:49 am
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