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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Yoko_Kurama wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
MasterTrader wrote:
The reason for this is that getting 5k+ Tractor Range on a 300 range tractor beam is completely unacceptable. The meta game should not revolve around creating ships that have invested heavily into end game gear and augmenters, only to use very low tech tractor beams to manipulate the battlefield.


And why the fuck shouldn't they? Because you just decided 5 minutes ago that you personally don't like it? Hate to run with the "let's hate Hober because he's bad" crowd, but this is exactly why they exist. There is no fucking reason to make this change, it is spurred literally only by your personal preference at this moment, and offers no positive gameplay features. Shit like this is exactly why I've left this game. There is no fucking direction, it's just a bunch of volunteer devs in a circle jerk with too much power because there isn't any fucking oversight so whatever halfbaked reason someone can come up with for huge changes is always enough.


Vitriol much.

As a member of the newly minted Pressed Cropse, I can say that this wasn't a unilateral decision on Hober's part as your post so heavily implies, and there wouldn't have been a post about it if other devs didn't agree with the proposal.


To be honest in regards to the """Newly Minted Pressed Cropse""" I haven't seen them at all on either Discord or the forum since it was formed, so they don't seem to be doing their job well at all.


Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:20 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
MasterTrader wrote:
Man am I glad we have the Press Corps...

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:00 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
In regard to the Press Corps, we're more or less still trying to figure out where we fall into the bigger picture (at least I am personally). Also, we don't have a Press Corps group on the discord, but we've been in on a few of the weekly dev meetings (listening mostly) and I think once some things have been ironed out you'll be seeing more of us in a quote "official" endquote capacity.


Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:36 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Septagon wrote:
Also, something Daedalus said about how there isn't a 'set' way to play the game, but it's moving in that direction really hit me. I remember a long time ago Jv2 mentioned how he made some sort of crazy MF FC ship for himself, because he wanted to fight with his slaves. It was a really cool idea, and from what he described he got shit on by the stereotypical wise ones because it wasn't really optimal or the best thing out there. I want to see more unique, surprising builds out there instead of this trend toward there being one or two paths of mediocrity for each class. Battle Spheres were a cool, unique thing (if overpowered a bit, though they were glass cannons apparently even when they had 5 aug slots) and now have basically been killed.

I'm kinda scared that similar things like that will happen to me one day, I'll wake up in the morning and a ship I spend half a year working on because I loved its appearance was turned into trash because it was deemed OP or not something players of a certains style should be using. If something like that happened, and that much time/investment was wiped out I would probably just drift away from the game.

Anyway, this is getting a bit off topic, but thought I'd say that since it made me think of that.


That's exactly what I meant and I'm starting to feel the same way to be honest, that I'm going to log in one day to find that a style of gameplay I've been using for over 5 years has been nerfed to the ground because somebody out there was on the receiving end, got angry and cried that it was overpowered. The Battle Sphere and the Pax Battle Frigate nerfs took it to a whole new level though, both were totally unnecessary.

I have never seen the problem with tractor ships. Personal opinion I think they're fucking retarded and anybody who uses them deserves everything they get, but I have never seen the problem with them because they're not exactly easy to use as you've got to tractor and not pull yourself towards your target, you've got to remain hidden, power the beam (to a lesser extent) and finally, they're so easy to counter. They're one shottable by most Snipers, Seers can see them and if you don't have any of those around, use Graviton Disruptors. If you're very unlucky and none of these are available, that's your loss. In which case just suicide and tow.


Yoko_Kurama wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
And why the fuck shouldn't they? Because you just decided 5 minutes ago that you personally don't like it? Hate to run with the "let's hate Hober because he's bad" crowd, but this is exactly why they exist. There is no fucking reason to make this change, it is spurred literally only by your personal preference at this moment, and offers no positive gameplay features. Shit like this is exactly why I've left this game. There is no fucking direction, it's just a bunch of volunteer devs in a circle jerk with too much power because there isn't any fucking oversight so whatever halfbaked reason someone can come up with for huge changes is always enough.


Vitriol much.

As a member of the newly minted Pressed Cropse, I can say that this wasn't a unilateral decision on Hober's part as your post so heavily implies, and there wouldn't have been a post about it if other devs didn't agree with the proposal.


EDIT: Just one thing I want to touch on, your status as a member of the "newly minted Pressed Cropse" is completely irrelevant. I will explain why it's irrelevant and I will also explain why Shawn and many others get the feeling that there is no reason to make this change & it's all done by personal preference. Because there is nobody complaining about it. I haven't seen anybody complaining about how tractor ships are broken, not once. In fact in the 8 years I've been playing this game I don't think I have ever seen anyone complain about them because as I stated above they're so easy to counter. Yet there are other things in the game players have a lot of issues with, or a lot of complaints towards but they get overlooked. Aggro from bases during PvB not working properly and the absurd maximum of 30 temporary drones in a galaxy at any time. Or my personal favourite - a bug which has been in the game since the launch of C2 but has not been fixed because of the same old "It's a very low priority bug" excuse, where the Ping Bonus on passive radars don't work against Stealth Ships.

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:46 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
stop trying to impress churchill and impress new players that would be a start

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:24 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Yoko_Kurama wrote:
In regard to the Press Corps, we're more or less still trying to figure out where we fall into the bigger picture (at least I am personally). Also, we don't have a Press Corps group on the discord, but we've been in on a few of the weekly dev meetings (listening mostly) and I think once some things have been ironed out you'll be seeing more of us in a quote "official" endquote capacity.



I mean, it's not that complicated. You basically sit in on meetings, ask questions about them afterwards, then tell the rest of us about it. I wasn't talking about a Press Corps group, not sure exactly what you mean by that, I was talking about members of it who post on the discord discussing what they heard during meetings. Aside from Polar doing a sort of Q&A after the first meeting, nobody else has been heard from since.

Also, you people aren't devs (which is a good thing, since player devs in general are super untrustworthy, but that's a topic I've talked about elsewhere). I saw a screenshot or something like a week ago of some guy bragging about how he was a """dev""" because he was in the press corps and I nearly died of secondhand embarrassment.


Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:24 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
should do a press release about how he cleared out TBBT's base :lol:

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:21 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
yeah I'd also like to know why getting Tractoring 20 through 22 is EASIER to get than 17-19???

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There used to be a point where t16 was the maximum level of tractoring. Then this moronic idea came to make it really difficult and expensive to get tractoring 19, but insanely cheap and easy to get 20-22.

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:29 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Tomzta09 wrote:
...Yet there are other things in the game players have a lot of issues with, or a lot of complaints towards but they get overlooked. Aggro from bases during PvB not working properly and the absurd maximum of 30 temporary drones in a galaxy at any time. Or my personal favourite - a bug which has been in the game since the launch of C2 but has not been fixed because of the same old "It's a very low priority bug" excuse, where the Ping Bonus on passive radars don't work against Stealth Ships.


Base aggro is being actively worked on, BvB/PvB in general is being actively worked on. It's a giant project and we can't share anything until we get the framework nailed down.

Maximum of 30 temporary drones in a galaxy at one time is a result of concerns about server performance, we'll be taking steps to increase that limit.

Radars and ping, etc, are probably going to be looked at when we deal with vision/detection in general. No idea when that's going to happen because Programmer time is a rare resource around here.

cej1120con wrote:
yeah I'd also like to know why getting Tractoring 20 through 22 is EASIER to get than 17-19???

Image

There used to be a point where t16 was the maximum level of tractoring. Then this moronic idea came to make it really difficult and expensive to get tractoring 19, but insanely cheap and easy to get 20-22.


Will make sure that adjusting the costs/routes for acquiring tractoring from, roughly,
15-19 is one of the first things I do.

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:51 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
lrellok wrote:

PLayer with tech 6-10 equipment are clobbering players with tech 21 equipment, and you are not seeing the problem there? REALLY?


I remember a time when it wasn't completely balanced around the feeling of tech levels, was a fun game.

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:52 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
I really have never seen the issue with tractor ships. The only reason people really use them is PvP, and as has been stated,
there are so many counters to one that it makes them worthless. Hell, if you didn't carry grav disrupters when they came out you were asking to be pulled away and isolated and killed. None of these changes will impact the issue at hand.

And that simply is low tech tractors and skill are so easy to obtain compared to high tech ones. If you want to fix tractors address that, if you want to make tractors more viable for other classes.
Don't take tractor skills from augs that people used to make them viable. Case in point I designed Zeus to be able to hold down oly bosses so my engi could elec. Now I have been forced to change his setup just so he sits there since I can not justify a Aug setup based solely on tractoring at this moment.

Or probably the best route, increase the power of higher tech tractors so there is a blatantly obvious power difference. I know nothing of numbers and what not so I won't even attempt to give numbers. Using a reindeer harness when you have t22 skills because it's easy to power,
small, and has absurd range is just silly. This may require a nerf to lower tech tractors such as the reindeer harness. But if a low tech tractor is the preferred choice over a higher tech tractor, there is something wrong.

If you take that route you have to be mindful of engineers because they will become ridiculous with a tractor in a non-specialized ship. This could be fixed by nerfing their tractor skills just enough that they remain equally as powerful with the changes. Of course this would hurt transfer beams. So they would have to be taken into consideration as well and possibly beefed up along the same lines.

Zeus


Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:10 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
sabre198 wrote:
stop trying to impress churchill and impress new players that would be a start

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:05 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
david95 wrote:
sabre198 wrote:
stop trying to impress churchill and impress new players that would be a start


Stop trying to impress me, brown

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:11 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
I completly agree that engineers should have the power of their skills transfered to beams themselves, or at least a part of it.


Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:26 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
I don't see any positive outcomes of this change, I don't see tractor beam range being an issue and I've never heard another player complain about it so why change it?


Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:11 pm
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