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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
JacktheRipper wrote:
I don't see any positive outcomes of this change, I don't see tractor beam range being an issue and I've never heard another player complain about it so why change it?


It leads to an undesirable PvP meta. Here are some considerations on this matter.

1) Gameplay is more fun if it takes place on screen. If your combat engagements generally take place off-screen, you are missing out on a big part of what the game is supposed to offer.

2) Powerful 9k range tractors are very disruptive to a squad. Moreover, the benefit of additional tractor ships is quite high compared to, say, the benefit of additional Shield Monkeys. This means that if we don't take action, a greater and greater percent of squad-based combat roles will be filled by tractor ships. This convergent meta behavior is undesirable because it makes players feel like the *have* to fit into one specific role if they want to compete.

3) Building off of #3, powerful 9k range tractor ships are easy to make and easy to use. The skill ceiling is very low for this gameplay mode compared to many other conceivable combat roles. Since we are having a convergence of meta around tractor ships, this means we are discouraging players from pursuing roles with high skill ceilings, which makes the quality of competition worse.

By removing most ways of increasing tractor beam range (and adjusting range of existing tractors to taste), we will resolve #1. There will still be options for pulling at long distance, but you won't be able to reel someone in from that far away. You'll either pull yourself out there or else just apply a gentle tug that can be overcome by ship engines.

This will mean that flimsy tractor ships whose mitigation comes from engaging beyond weapon range will become obsolete. If people want to play a tractoring role in PvP, they will have to engage in the comparatively much higher skill ceiling role of tractoring within the engagement range of the enemy. However, they'll have much stronger tractor strength with which to do this, allowing them to still be very disruptive at closer range.

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Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:33 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Berserker tractor ship new meta


Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:17 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
anilv wrote:
JacktheRipper wrote:
I don't see any positive outcomes of this change, I don't see tractor beam range being an issue and I've never heard another player complain about it so why change it?


It leads to an undesirable PvP meta. Here are some considerations on this matter.

1) Gameplay is more fun if it takes place on screen. If your combat engagements generally take place off-screen, you are missing out on a big part of what the game is supposed to offer.

2) Powerful 9k range tractors are very disruptive to a squad. Moreover, the benefit of additional tractor ships is quite high compared to, say, the benefit of additional Shield Monkeys. This means that if we don't take action, a greater and greater percent of squad-based combat roles will be filled by tractor ships. This convergent meta behavior is undesirable because it makes players feel like the *have* to fit into one specific role if they want to compete.

3) Building off of #3, powerful 9k range tractor ships are easy to make and easy to use. The skill ceiling is very low for this gameplay mode compared to many other conceivable combat roles. Since we are having a convergence of meta around tractor ships, this means we are discouraging players from pursuing roles with high skill ceilings, which makes the quality of competition worse.

By removing most ways of increasing tractor beam range (and adjusting range of existing tractors to taste), we will resolve #1. There will still be options for pulling at long distance, but you won't be able to reel someone in from that far away. You'll either pull yourself out there or else just apply a gentle tug that can be overcome by ship engines.

This will mean that flimsy tractor ships whose mitigation comes from engaging beyond weapon range will become obsolete. If people want to play a tractoring role in PvP, they will have to engage in the comparatively much higher skill ceiling role of tractoring within the engagement range of the enemy. However, they'll have much stronger tractor strength with which to do this, allowing them to still be very disruptive at closer range.


By nerfing sources of tractor power to not give range anymore, how is that going to affect legitimate combat ships? My engi has about 3-4k range on his push tractor and that is required to be able to push out some bosses (like cybernetic battleships). By directly nerfing tractor ships how are you going to prevent a nerf or change on legitimate engineers?


Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:44 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
anilv wrote:
JacktheRipper wrote:
I don't see any positive outcomes of this change, I don't see tractor beam range being an issue and I've never heard another player complain about it so why change it?


It leads to an undesirable PvP meta. Here are some considerations on this matter.

1) Gameplay is more fun if it takes place on screen. If your combat engagements generally take place off-screen, you are missing out on a big part of what the game is supposed to offer.


With this logic, means stealth snipers needs to have 2k range at max lol.


Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:17 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
JacktheRipper wrote:
anilv wrote:
JacktheRipper wrote:
I don't see any positive outcomes of this change, I don't see tractor beam range being an issue and I've never heard another player complain about it so why change it?


It leads to an undesirable PvP meta. Here are some considerations on this matter.

1) Gameplay is more fun if it takes place on screen. If your combat engagements generally take place off-screen, you are missing out on a big part of what the game is supposed to offer.

2) Powerful 9k range tractors are very disruptive to a squad. Moreover, the benefit of additional tractor ships is quite high compared to, say, the benefit of additional Shield Monkeys. This means that if we don't take action, a greater and greater percent of squad-based combat roles will be filled by tractor ships. This convergent meta behavior is undesirable because it makes players feel like the *have* to fit into one specific role if they want to compete.

3) Building off of #3, powerful 9k range tractor ships are easy to make and easy to use. The skill ceiling is very low for this gameplay mode compared to many other conceivable combat roles. Since we are having a convergence of meta around tractor ships, this means we are discouraging players from pursuing roles with high skill ceilings, which makes the quality of competition worse.

By removing most ways of increasing tractor beam range (and adjusting range of existing tractors to taste), we will resolve #1. There will still be options for pulling at long distance, but you won't be able to reel someone in from that far away. You'll either pull yourself out there or else just apply a gentle tug that can be overcome by ship engines.

This will mean that flimsy tractor ships whose mitigation comes from engaging beyond weapon range will become obsolete. If people want to play a tractoring role in PvP, they will have to engage in the comparatively much higher skill ceiling role of tractoring within the engagement range of the enemy. However, they'll have much stronger tractor strength with which to do this, allowing them to still be very disruptive at closer range.


By nerfing sources of tractor power to not give range anymore, how is that going to affect legitimate combat ships? My engi has about 3-4k range on his push tractor and that is required to be able to push out some bosses (like cybernetic battleships). By directly nerfing tractor ships how are you going to prevent a nerf or change on legitimate engineers?


Like I said, we are also going to go over the baseline range stats of tractors and possibly increase some, especially for push tractors. We will not go forward with this change until we have the stats balanced in such a way that legitimate combat ship usage is still available.

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Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live.

http://www.starsonata.com/features


Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:03 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Dispatched wrote:
anilv wrote:
JacktheRipper wrote:
I don't see any positive outcomes of this change, I don't see tractor beam range being an issue and I've never heard another player complain about it so why change it?


It leads to an undesirable PvP meta. Here are some considerations on this matter.

1) Gameplay is more fun if it takes place on screen. If your combat engagements generally take place off-screen, you are missing out on a big part of what the game is supposed to offer.


With this logic, means stealth snipers needs to have 2k range at max lol.


I agree. But we can't fix everything about the game in one swoop. For now we are focusing on extremely long range tractor beams.

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Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live.

http://www.starsonata.com/features


Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:03 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Sniper range nerf confirmed. Hoberestus the Nerf strikes again.

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Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:43 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Provided "Sniper" acts like a Titan armed with a Scout or Pulse Rifle or Handcannon in Destiny 2, I think people will be fine with having 3000 max range instead of the 9000 max range, and 2000 effective combat range for those that *don't* want to use Sterile Cannons.


Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:10 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
We aren't going to discuss any changes to Sniper range in this thread.

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Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:21 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Whats the progress with this proposal anyways. Will it be done by end of next (Nov11) uni?


Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:18 pm
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Max235 wrote:
Whats the progress with this proposal anyways. Will it be done by end of next (Nov11) uni?


No.

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http://www.starsonata.com/features


Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:29 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
Max235 wrote:
i have never played with a mid-high/end Game sniper before, but i don't care i open my mouth just to look inteligent

3k range, lol...


Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:52 am
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Post Re: OFFICIAL: Tentative Tractor Beam Changes
anilv wrote:
We aren't going to discuss any changes to Sniper range in this thread.


Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:39 pm
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