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OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=63255		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  MasterTrader [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
Second EDIT: After taking the time to digest all of your feedback, we have come to the conclusion that "nerfing" engines with powerful AugMod's on them is not the proper course of action. We have reverted the reduction to AugMod engines, all engines will now receive about 100% more Thrust and 33% more Turning. These changes are on the test server right now. Along with this change, Ace in a Pills have had their duration reduced to 12 seconds. They still give the same bonuses, so this means that they are now very powerful short term boosts similar to Precision Pills and Blitz Turbos.
Quote:
Let me try this again, and this time I'll try to lay it all out on the table for you. Hopefully we can get off on a better foot.

Nowadays, most players choose engines that have helpful augmods like resistance and electric tempering. This makes sense because even small amounts of those augmods tend to have a nice effect on stats. However, it means that engines without augmods tend not to see use, even if their thrust and turning stats are quite nice. In order to create more meaningful gameplay choices, we would like to make engines without augmods good enough that players consider using them.

Our first draft for this project is to make augmods more valuable on engines. This will allow engines without augmods to increase in power to compensate. Currently on the test server, we have engines without augmods at about 30% more thrust than before, while engines with high value augmods are at around parity or 5% lower. If you are interested in this project, please hop on the test server and compare some engines without augmods to the ones you currently use. We would like to know if you'd consider using non-augmod engines under a change like this.

We want to emphasize that this project is in a very early stage and there is no reason to panic if you don't like what you see. Just let us know how you feel and we will take that into account as we move forward. Thanks to everyone who has a chance to test things out for us!
Author:  Septagon [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
What about turning? From my experience with low level engines, thrust hasn't really been the problem but being able to turn and rotate has been.
Author:  anilv [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
Septagon wrote:
What about turning? From my experience with low level engines, thrust hasn't really been the problem but being able to turn and rotate has been.


We are taking things slow so we don't mess up all the balance in one go. Once the thrust rework is in a good place, we will think about using a similar approach to turning stats.
Author:  MasterTrader [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
For right now, feedback and playtesting are what is most needed. The more responses I receive the faster I can move on to looking into Turning.
Author:  iwnh01 [ Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
MasterTrader wrote:
For right now, feedback and playtesting are what is most needed. The more responses I receive the faster I can move on to looking into Turning.


Can I ask what exactly you're trying to understand through this testing? I'd make the argument that in terms of player experience the combination of thrust + turning is not something that can be taken piece by piece. I've never thought wow this hotrod has such amaze thrust - opaf. It's actually pretty annoying to pilot without some turning bonuses.
Author:  Max235 [ Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
As I understand it, and Hober confirmed, the vast majority of engines used are not used because they give good mobility, but because of the extra augmods/itemmods that bolster your setup elsewhere. Players who lack the thrust/turning after these mods pop some kind of Ace in the Pill tweak to cover their agility issues in combat, as those tweaks last 5 minutes and are pretty cheap over the long run.

So the dev team is going to nerf all the engines with mods that people almost exclusively use, to a degree, and buff engines that don't have mods. If you want the better mods for your setup elsewhere, you won't have as good agility stats and they'll probably be bigger/heavier as well.
Author:  Chrono Warrior [ Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
Can I ask what the reasoning behind nerfing augmod engines at all is? They are worse mobility wise than non augmod engines already. Why can't the augmod engines be left the same and the other types just buffed 20 - 30%? I just don't see evidence for why this has to be a nerf. It just seems to be another in a long line of decisions where instead of looking for alternatives, the item/aug/ship in question is just nerfed. I understand the dev team wants to make it so that people choose engines for their stats and not their augmods, but the reason people do that in current meta is because of modifications on gear, which I believe will be remedied with the modification rebalance. Shouldn't this change to engines be after the modification rebalance? Because as I see it, the meta revolves around what mods you can get on what gear, if that changes, the gear people use will change as well.

That's just my take on it.

~ Chrono
Author:  david95 [ Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
Do you mind just posting a list of all nerfs that the dev team is thinking of? This nerf 1 thing a week meme makes it impossible for people to actually want to play the game/resub.
Chrono Warrior wrote:
Can I ask what the reasoning behind nerfing augmod engines at all is?


The above seems to be the running theme for every single nerf topic for the past couple of weeks.
Author:  Max235 [ Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
Even if you do buff the mod-less engines by 30% powerbudget, most if not nearly all people will continue to use the modded ones. Because they can still use Ace in the Pill to get the thrust/turn that they would need, without having to sacrifice their setup in anyway.
Author:  anilv [ Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
david95 wrote:
Do you mind just posting a list of all nerfs that the dev team is thinking of? This nerf 1 thing a week meme makes it impossible for people to actually want to play the game/resub.
Chrono Warrior wrote:
Can I ask what the reasoning behind nerfing augmod engines at all is?


The above seems to be the running theme for every single nerf topic for the past couple of weeks.


This is a super early stage project that we are opening up to the community precisely because we want you to have input. Right now the main idea is to figure out if people would be willing/interested to use the non-augmod engines if they were this much better in raw stats than the augmodded ones that are currently in use.
Author:  MasterTrader [ Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
Keep in mind, we're seriously considering nerfing Ace in A Pills to be in line with Precision Pills in terms of their part and duration, so buffs would most likely be packages with nerfs to those tweaks. The end goal is to make engine selection more important than tweak usage.
Author:  crnerblitz [ Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
You guys are out of control. Nerf a week my ass, it seems like nerf a day. Tractors, engines, pills.

You guys are running yourselves out of jobs and you dont even know it.

When the DEv team only SUBTRACTS from a game it becomes shit and people start looking for a place where Devs ADD to a game.

Try addition some time, you might like it. I dont even do content but my 6 subs will be looking for sme place else to spend game money
Author:  Septagon [ Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
I mean, maybe I'm missing the point but this sounds a bit silly. A change like this would probably just drive all the people who are using Ace in the Pills currently to level up their Zen and Bar skills for Turning and Thrust and basically have no impact on them, while new players who are trying to get every bit of efficiency out of mediocre lower tech gear they can would be hurt.

Also, looking on the wiki, barring like, 2-3 or so examples (most of which being Oly engines) the tradeoff for a nice modded engine is their size.
Author:  MasterTrader [ Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
I have updated the OP, please read it for a better understanding of what is going on.
Author:  tobi95 [ Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OFFICIAL: Engine adjustments on Test Server
I have to agree.. tractors kinda needed it because they are super unbalanced but this is getting crazy. People take augged engines for the aug they come with because mobility is easily fixed (even without pills) through radishs, tractors, pills, and auras if your in teamspace. Nerfing augged engines is a bad idea and just creates salt in the player base. Once again people have built these engines multiple times to bindo them and get the best mods on them on top of the aug and your going to nerf them %5? First off %5 will do near nothing except say that unaugged engines are %35 percent better. In reality you should leave them alone buff unaugged engines because %5 isn't going to make the playerbase change a thing.

This is getting frustrating
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