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Post to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
The recent collapse of the mod system changes has revealed what many players have understood for some time. The current system of "volunteer developers" is crippling game development for star sonata. Imagine if league where to announce a major stats rework, hype it for months, then announce it was not happening at all becouse someone took a vacation. The gaming communities reaction would range from apoplectic to berserk.

Yet this is exactly what has just happened. Now, this is not the fault of the devs;"if the words of command are not clear and distinct, if the orders not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame". There is a problem with the dev team, a problem that has been evident and open since I joined the game, and it is this: it is comprised of volunteers who only work on things they like, not things that are necessary.

Now again, this is not the fault of the dev team, they are after all either part time or volunteers. The fault lies with the person who believes full time code devs are not necessary to run an mmo, IE the current owner. However, this attitude is not limited to the current owner.

anilv wrote:
If 2000 new players sub this game I will personally create a new team and make sure they all get off to a good start. That would be a absolute grand slam of a Steam release for us.


Anyone who has considered running a small business know you will spend 50% of revenue on wages. Now salaries.com quotes game devs starting at 60k, so if we where going to hire 3 full time code devs that would be 60k x 3 x 2 = $360,000 or about 3600 subs in total, double the number the dev team is calling a grand slam. Lemme repeat that, in order to get the most threadbare of staffing, SS2 would need to get double the steam subscribers of the dev teams wildest expectations.

And that is the problem. The mental concept of the game is completely divorced from reality. The net result is a negative loop where the fewer players we have the less likely we are to get paid staff, and the longer we put off hiring paid staff the more people will leave.

Jeff I sincerely believe you have three choices at this juncture.

1) Learn to code. This would be my overwhelming preference, as the best managers invariably understand the day to day operations of their preview.

2) Sell star sonata to someone who knows how to code. This is both less likely and less preferable. You seem to have good intentions, just a profound lack of knowledge base.

3) Hire full time code devs. This is the option I consider most likely, however you are going to need to do some course correcting to make this work.

Edited for spelling, typed this up on my phone.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:37 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Jeff is pretty good at code.


Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:46 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Antilzah wrote:
Jeff is pretty good at code.

I have repeatedly been told this was not even remotely the case. i will ask jeff to please confirm his coding abilities or absence of.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:51 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Jeff codes. He's programmed quite a few of the features and core mechanics of Star Sonata.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:02 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
500 subscriptions = 1 full time paid dev

Not, 3.


Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:34 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Max235 wrote:
500 subscriptions = 1 full time paid dev

Not, 3.


The average salary for game developer jobs is $63,000.

The following represents payroll costs for other businesses: physician offices, 46.19 percent; legal services, 45.03 percent; software publishers, 42.98 percent

$63,000 / .43 = $146,000 per full time game dev, divided by $120 (assuming one month subs only) means 1,200 subs per dev maxa. It would be really helpful if you would do 10 minutes research before you reply please.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:57 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
I cant see how any of those 3 choices arrive at your intended destination, please elaborate.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:01 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
10$ x 500 subscriptions = 5000$/month.

There are 12 months in a year.

5000 x 12 = 60,000$

I'm not sure how you managed to nearly triple those revenue numbers.


Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:08 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Jeff has more professional code experience than anyone else on the dev team, including Jey.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:06 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
anilv wrote:
Jeff has more professional code experience than anyone else on the dev team, including Jey.


I would prefer jeffs word on this, but i am willing to accept two coders in his place. Very well, item one is achieved. However, this only cuases me more concern, how did we manage to not get the Mod alterations done if we do in fact have experienced full time coders on staff? This is something you personally hyped for months enk.

sabre198 wrote:
I cant see how any of those 3 choices arrive at your intended destination, please elaborate.


...? You cannot see how having full time paid developers solves the problem of people randomly dropping projects because they are volunteers and thus only have to work on what they feel like? How does that no logically follow? Trust me, i hate certain runs i have to do at work, but i have to do them anyway because otherwise i am no longer employed.

Max235 wrote:
I'm not sure how you managed to nearly triple those revenue numbers.


Have you tried reading the links?

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:11 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Just because you calculated the ideal salary expense budget based on the average game developer salary, doesn't actually mean SS can actually pay for all those people.

Even if we assume that 43% can be applied to SS's current revenue, that is still 60,000$ revenue before this expense. Applying that 43% gives us 25,800$ for salaries. As you can see, that is not enough to cover 3 median range salaries for full time paid game developers. That is not even enough to cover 1 full time paid developer. Each of the 3 developers will have to suffice on 8,600$/year, which is just over half minimum wage.

You calculate budgets from revenue information. You don't calculate revenue from budget information. I thought you were an economics graduate.


Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:52 am
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Max235 wrote:
Just because you calculated the ideal salary expense budget based on the average game developer salary, doesn't actually mean SS can actually pay for all those people.

Even if we assume that 43% can be applied to SS's current revenue, that is still 60,000$ revenue before this expense. Applying that 43% gives us 25,800$ for salaries. As you can see, that is not enough to cover 3 median range salaries for full time paid game developers. That is not even enough to cover 1 full time paid developer. Each of the 3 developers will have to suffice on 8,600$/year, which is just over half minimum wage.

You calculate budgets from revenue information. You don't calculate revenue from budget information. I thought you were an economics graduate.


I am, and yes, that is EXACTLY how large companies calculate. They know they will need X revenue to cover the buisness model they are planning, so if they cannot get X revenue they change the model until they can. WHich is what i am telling you thatyou have to do. Change your model until you can get the revenue you need to compete effectively for customers.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:10 pm
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
To get 43% of the budget to cover ...say, 3 full time paid developers, SS needs to have 418,000$/year revenue. That is 3500 odd subscriptions. Seven times the most optimal numbers.


Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:12 pm
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
Max235 wrote:
To get 43% of the budget to cover ...say, 3 full time paid developers, SS needs to have 418,000$/year revenue. That is 3500 odd subscriptions. Seven times the most optimal numbers.


Maxa, we have 500 players right now. You are seriosly telling me the dev team does not even expect to get one single player off of steam? Becouse my next suggestion will be FIRE THE DEV TEAM and find people who are compitent.

Edit, i am actually really pissed now, so i am gonna do what i do when i am really pissed, and dump numbers at you.

http://steamcharts.com/app/449140#All IStrolid which has MASSIVLEY worse game play and graphics, 1200 players on luanch.

http://steamcharts.com/app/339600#All Vega Conflict, on par with SS2 graphics 3800 players from luanch.

http://steamcharts.com/app/212070#All significantly better graphics, 4800 players on luanch

SO where is this idea that we are going to get next to no players coming from please? Explain, ty.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:49 pm
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Post Re: to jeff; on code devs, revenue, and expectations.
We have 500 players. 500 f2p *and* p2p combined. There are about 400 p2p accounts active, with about 150 total p2p members.


Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:51 am
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