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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Sideer Level: 2160 Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:00 am Posts: 80 |
I have noticed 100% analysis gives random critical strength bonus. It is nowhere close to 50% even now. For example if I get 4381 reg hit with PSS I'm getting crits like:
5082 4677 4539 etc, while msg says 150% all the time. Last edited by Sideer on Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total. |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:54 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Fly fast kill hard Level: 4664 Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:51 am Posts: 829 |
Sideer wrote: I have noticed 100% analysis gives random critical strength bonus. It is nowhere close to 50% even now. For example if I get 4381 reg hit with PSS I'm getting crits like: 5082 4677 4539 etc, while msg says 150% all the time. The faster you move the lover you hit. |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:03 am |
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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Sideer Level: 2160 Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:00 am Posts: 80 |
My speed is at 0-2 when firing, so it is not that.
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Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:07 am |
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over 9000!
Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Churchill Level: 5620 Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:36 pm Posts: 11706 |
I noticed the +crit damage isn't much more than 25% extra damage when using the show damage.
I normally get about 4000 per pss bullet on MF Reavers. With +150% more damage, I got about 4500 damage a shot at SA100. I was happy with the ROF, but I felt I should've at least do 50% more damage like all non seer classes. _________________ Salt Assault drew this conclusion from the latest devblog. [img]http://oi62.tinypic.com/33208ex.jpg[/img] |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:31 pm |
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Member
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:53 pm Posts: 696 Location: South-Western Germany |
Sideer wrote: I have noticed 100% analysis gives random critical strength bonus. It is nowhere close to 50% even now. For example if I get 4381 reg hit with PSS I'm getting crits like: 5082 4677 4539 etc, while msg says 150% all the time. I did a ton of testing with SA in the past - different ships, different setups, different weapons, different targets - till now I never got a result like yours. The results were, within in the limitation of rounding errors, always correct (I compare it with my sheet). |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:58 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Sideer Level: 2160 Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:00 am Posts: 80 |
With regular damage (with 100% analysis on) at 4k I should get around 10k crit on my target and I wasn't even getting the usual 50%, that is my point of making this topic. My target was Princess in UZ and those values comes from fighting her.
Edit: Was sniper analysis nerfed recently? |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:10 pm |
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Main: k-2
Level: 2715 Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:48 am Posts: 5387 |
Sideer wrote: With regular damage (with 100% analysis on) at 4k I should get around 10k crit on my target and I wasn't even getting the usual 50%, that is my point of making this topic. My target was Princess in UZ and those values comes from fighting her. Edit: Was sniper analysis nerfed recently? maybe princess has crit hit resist? |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:18 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Peon Main: Si's_Yes_Man Level: 2275 Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:27 pm Posts: 2846 |
that affects chance, not damage.
_________________ My User Page Join SS! |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:30 pm |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
I suggest testing on regular AI if you haven't done so already. Perhaps some bosses have a special ability (not crit hit resist) that actually reduces crit hit damage.
_________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:44 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Sideer Level: 2160 Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:00 am Posts: 80 |
anilv wrote: I suggest testing on regular AI if you haven't done so already. Perhaps some bosses have a special ability (not crit hit resist) that actually reduces crit hit damage. I've got the same result on Marcus (variable crit hit), damage should be constant at last. As far as I know there is no such thing like -crit strength ability in game. |
Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:35 am |
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Team:
Rank: Director Main: Sideer Level: 2160 Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:00 am Posts: 80 |
After some more testing I have found a reason. Values below are damage caused to my own base (physical dampener, no heat dampener).
Range ~150 22k crit with sniper fire, 17k crit with PSS Range ~2000 11k crit with sniper fire, 11k crit with PSS Regular damage constant with both weapons. I was also facing my target. After turning 180 degrees (efectively forcing projectile to travel more) I have noticed decreasing crit strength aswell. Conclusion is: Critical Strength Modifier scales down with range which projectile has to travel to reach target |
Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:23 am |
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Team:
Rank: Operator Main: Hooch Dealer Level: 4740 Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:20 pm Posts: 1353 Location: Who is John Galt? |
Verified with snipers on my team, also it appears this was a global change, noticing the same effects on my Gunners and Zerkers. Lots of zero damage crit hits.
_________________ 3 Basic types of players(quitters, losers, and winners) Choose your own fate. http://www.gbtv.com http://www.theblaze.com |
Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:47 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Operator Main: iPod Level: 6176 Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:11 am Posts: 22 |
This change actually makes it so crit hits lower your DPS then you're are at max range... which effect much more than sniper.
However with sniper even at SA100 I was getting crits that did less damage than standard hits by about 3%. My tested average crit rate is 25% which falls about in line with the sniper increases. Given I should do 154% more damage on a crit and 1/4 shots should crit that is a net increase of DPS by 38.5%. with the new 3% loss of DPS that is a -.75% DPS decreases. Take the difference of those and you get a 39.25% DPS DECREASE in my DPS... if you want to compare this to another class... lets take bezerker for instance... it is basically like making a bezerker only able fire 3 weapons (-40% DPS) instead of 5... which I don't think any zeker in game would be ok with. NOW.. this is a global change meaning that every class is effected the same, however, this change does not effect beam weapons, which is the primary form of DPS for: Gunners (weapon DPS not missiles which are not effected), SDs, Seers, many zerker weapons, most slave setups... basically the only class that uses ranged projectiles as their primary DPS is sniper. ADDITIONALLY... Sniper and seer are the only two classes that have innate crit chance increases built into their classes, meaning where a SD crits 5% of the time, a sniper crits 25% of the time and a seer crits 90% of the time, making us MUCH more effected by said change. I agree that even after several batches of nerfs to sniper gear we are still too powerful in solo play, however, I do NOT think that making crits (something that is supposed to be a boon to snipers) actually LOWER our DPS is not only illogical but flat out lazy... And I won't even get into it here... but there are other SERIOUS issues with crits that need immediate fixing and I cannot understand why you are making changes like this when you have legitimate crit bugs to fix... If ya'll need anything tested before implementing in the future let me know, I'm more than happy to provide a fully rounded analysis for ya! _________________ I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world. -Oscar Wilde |
Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:10 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Peon Main: Si's_Yes_Man Level: 2275 Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:27 pm Posts: 2846 |
just a few corrections, but your point still stands.
SDs do get a crit hit chance bonus: Speedy Firing: +4% Rate of Fire, +1% Critical Hit Percentage, +1% Damage - these bonuses are scaled by your speed also, the base crit hit chance is 1% while visible. _________________ My User Page Join SS! |
Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:37 am |
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Main: k-2
Level: 2715 Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:48 am Posts: 5387 |
SimonV2 wrote: just a few corrections, but your point still stands. SDs do get a crit hit chance bonus: Speedy Firing: +4% Rate of Fire, +1% Critical Hit Percentage, +1% Damage - these bonuses are scaled by your speed also, the base crit hit chance is 1% while visible. how do u calculate Crit hit chance? like, 1% Base, 20% SD Skill, 10% Augs. how do i come up with the final bonus? |
Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:40 am |
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