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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4889 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
sabre198 wrote: When you see complete rodents on top teams just because directors are faced with the choice of either having bodies online or nobody online. They have to make tough choices to turn blind eye to scammers, pirates and popular timewasters just to have bodies in the team. You have to keep the whole rodent set onside just so you can have a quiet life as a director doing the things that are fun to you, and to keep the hardworking quiet members of your team safe. If the game had thousands and thousands of players eventually market forces would wipe out the rodents as they would be useless to a top team, and could be replaced by those hardworking decent players coming up the ranks. Theres no wheat from the chaff to sort anymore. Lmao, I love this so much hahahaha. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:05 pm |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
Don't know about other "top teams" but I have never felt the need to compromise my recruitment standards for activity's sake. Maybe if others followed this example it would be a good first step to exterminating the "rodents" that topbuzz is talking about. Who knows, maybe the undesirables would form their own teams and stir stuff up a bit!
_________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:23 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: crop octagon Level: 6136 Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:36 pm Posts: 73 |
TMOI2 wrote: Actually, might get my ass kicked by Crop for my monday morning quarterbacking addiction... It's a serious condition. _________________ KILL IT WITH FIRE! |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:32 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Main: TMOI Level: 1825 Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:23 pm Posts: 66 |
anilv wrote: Don't know about other "top teams" but I have never felt the need to compromise my recruitment standards for activity's sake. Maybe if others followed this example it would be a good first step to exterminating the "rodents" that topbuzz is talking about. Who knows, maybe the undesirables would form their own teams and stir stuff up a bit! That is exactly what happened right? now all we have to do is Giuliani the place up and we'll get a bunch of hipsters moving in to expand the playerbase. and before you start saying "oh gross, hipsters" just remember that hipsters usually have lots of money from their parents and hipster chicks are generally pretty hot. It will be all like Zoey Dechanelle up in here going, "I'm just a single girl trying to make it in the big city, what am I to do?" |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:51 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Operator Main: Igneil Level: 6193 Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:45 am Posts: 24 |
if that happens EF needs to become Team America World Police. with wex as Matt Deamon
_________________ http://puu.sh/2f2Oy |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:58 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Main: Lithium Level: 3185 Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:22 am Posts: 186 Location: A tree. A road. Midnight. |
wtf did i just read
_________________ You should never trust atoms - they make up everything. Estragon: Well, shall we go? Vladimir: Yes, let's go. [They do not move]. |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:59 pm |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
TMOI2 wrote: anilv wrote: Don't know about other "top teams" but I have never felt the need to compromise my recruitment standards for activity's sake. Maybe if others followed this example it would be a good first step to exterminating the "rodents" that topbuzz is talking about. Who knows, maybe the undesirables would form their own teams and stir stuff up a bit! That is exactly what happened right? now all we have to do is Giuliani the place up and we'll get a bunch of hipsters moving in to expand the playerbase. and before you start saying "oh gross, hipsters" just remember that hipsters usually have lots of money from their parents and hipster chicks are generally pretty hot. It will be all like Zoey Dechanelle up in here going, "I'm just a single girl trying to make it in the big city, what am I to do?" ROFL I enjoyed your ultra long post earlier, btw. Just didn't have time to reply to it and now it's a bit far back. But anyway, I mostly agree with your sentiments (and have already spent many hours thinking about and discussing these topics with my teammates). So wait though, you're saying that if top teams jointly cease their pandering to toxic players, it will result in pushing said players out with SS gentrification? And SS Zooey Deschanel for good measure. _________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:44 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Main: TMOI Level: 1825 Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:23 pm Posts: 66 |
anilv wrote: TMOI2 wrote: anilv wrote: Don't know about other "top teams" but I have never felt the need to compromise my recruitment standards for activity's sake. Maybe if others followed this example it would be a good first step to exterminating the "rodents" that topbuzz is talking about. Who knows, maybe the undesirables would form their own teams and stir stuff up a bit! That is exactly what happened right? now all we have to do is Giuliani the place up and we'll get a bunch of hipsters moving in to expand the playerbase. and before you start saying "oh gross, hipsters" just remember that hipsters usually have lots of money from their parents and hipster chicks are generally pretty hot. It will be all like Zoey Dechanelle up in here going, "I'm just a single girl trying to make it in the big city, what am I to do?" ROFL I enjoyed your ultra long post earlier, btw. Just didn't have time to reply to it and now it's a bit far back. But anyway, I mostly agree with your sentiments (and have already spent many hours thinking about and discussing these topics with my teammates). So wait though, you're saying that if top teams jointly cease their pandering to toxic players, it will result in pushing said players out with SS gentrification? And SS Zooey Deschanel for good measure. Exactly! So the noob killing trolls (RF maybe?) are those angry bums who just start washing your windows when you are stuck in traffic and then when they ask you for money you know that if you don't give it to them they are going to crack your windshield with a rock. Now those chicks from Broad City are never going to deal with that. They are just going to move to Chicago or some place, which sucks since they are awesome. BUT if we let all the noob killers know whats up, then maybe hot funny chicks who are clearly loaded since how else could they afford that apartment move in. |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:00 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: crop octagon Level: 6136 Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:36 pm Posts: 73 |
_________________ KILL IT WITH FIRE! |
Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:58 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4889 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
Sums up how I feel about this thread:
_________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:56 am |
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Main: Capt Cool
Level: 0 Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:51 am Posts: 1112 |
So what this topic is basicly coming to...we all should gang on RF and throw them out of the game?
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Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:37 am |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Triskaidekaphobia Level: 5491 Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:41 am Posts: 94 |
TMOI2 wrote: So this thread was a way fun read, especially after everything last night. Clearly everyone knows what they are talking about. Its like if John Dickerson and David Brooks played Star Sonata and were talking about geopolitics. The points made by IE's representative at the beginning, while kind of whiny, are the most interesting here though since he is the most right and the most wrong. Everyone here is basically reminding a fairly inexperienced team that if they are going to move into high DF space that they need to fortify. People like Lemon do exist, and as his unprovoked war declaration last night against UDA that foiled an easy roll over of AS proves, not all actors make rational decisions. Lemon's rollover clearly served as a team building exercise as stated earlier, and nothing else. This does not delegitmize the action, but the argument that because it can be done (i.e. the bases were weakly fortified) does not explain why they would do it. As also stated though, conquest is a completely legitimate game mechanic and if you aren't ready to defend you aren't ready to build. IE states that they were uncontested in this space for several uni's and I'm glad they managed that, but this would have always happened eventually without sufficient deterrence. The economic point of a low level team getting rich quickly off of low investment colonies in higher DF space was kind of ironic though. A low level team is probably using their money to buy T20 and T21 gear and ships which I would assume would be great for a T22 player with a shop selling those things at higher prices. The Sour Shop would have probably been one of the greatest recipients, but yet another group of people now hate RF and will probably choose to pay a higher price somewhere else rather than provide them revenue. IE does make an extremely valuable point though. I think it has been largely ignored because of the whiny tone in which it was made but maybe also because some people know it is in fact very true that actions like this do diminish the player base. These are big uber guys making bank while no one is looking. This is a newish pre T22 team that probably doesn't log in quite as much as Lemon does. Some of their players will probably be stronger from the experience, but some will probably quit too. Now if SS had a vibrantly overflowing player base at the moment this would be great, but I think everyone knows we don't. As much of this conversation stated we don't currently have the player base to fill this uni out. While the developers should probably add some new cool ruins and maybe some new even rarer commods to extract for some peri peri stuff maybe, the biggest problem with the territorial conquest mechanic is that there is a whole lot of territory for each player. Isn't this game more fun with more people playing it? The only reason why Lemon might kind of suck for having done this is exactly the point that IE makes which is that the space was completely uncontested. That space is now a little bit less contested than it was, which kind of sucks. Maybe if these guys had been allowed to sprawl out some other newby F2P guys would have thought, "hey lets pay for subs and do it too". Maybe eventually space becomes a real issue and people start having real reasons to fight. Instead, what we have is guys like Lemon deciding that it would be fun to instruct those who don't seem to have learned their lesson yet. What Lemon did was not against the rules or anything but part of a completely legitimate game mechanic. However, mutual defense and defining geopolitics is also part of how this game works. The developers set up the game to let you do whatever you wanted not so we can beat up on noobs (full disclosure, I'm still pretty much a noob), they did it because it should be us making the rules not them. Its kind of whiny and stupid to try and turn blowing up noobs into a moral argument, but there is a very real question of whether or not allowing such action is desirable. Maybe IE should have fortified better to be in W3, but do you really want a big blank spot on the map going all the way to the tail? Do you really think that Lemon cares about whether they were in W3 or not? This kind of behavior is just going to lead to a situation where only ubers can exist in WS and everyone else is stuck in EF. Then no one new will ever be able to build the resources it takes to become uber and the player base will shrink as those people decide that this game kind of sucks for them. It is totally legitimate to go bully some noobs according to the game mechanics. It is also totally legitimate for the rest of the player base to decide that bullying noobs is not good for the game or the prices in their stores and choose to police such bad actors accordingly. While IE makes the most important point though, they also make the worst by claiming as a good that they have stayed out of all the Starsodrama. I guess entangling alliances can be entangling I guess, but if you had taken the time to even just ask for support from the growing number of teams looking to each other for mutual defense you probably would have likely been welcome to it. More than that, if you had tried to network with more experienced players at all you would have known all of what is being said here and the full capabilities of RF before they blew up your bases, not after. I would strongly encourage IE leadership to reconsider the decision to stay out of politics and whine about how they got rolled over later. I would also encourage any member of IE to reconsider their membership in a team that builds weak, doesn't network, and then acts morally outraged when the are casually overrun. RF certainly is a bad actor, but did you not already know this? Didn't RE get rolled over just last uni the exact same way and I know that AS under Lemon's influence tried to roll us over with little more justification than there was to roll over you. We were spread pretty thin too (myself especially) and we paid some consequences for it. But the gals that had real investment were heavily protected by individuals who knew what they were doing. In the end MC worked through the politics and "starsodrama" to work with other teams of similar interest. Trying to use the claim that you didn't bother to interact with any other teams to justify the claim that no one should ever attack you ever is like saying no one should ever attack your bases because you only ever drop Apollo kits. So yes, teams should fortify or else face the consequences, and all of that. I guess we should all look toward self reliance, personal responsibility, temperance and other exciting concepts of that nature. However the ubers out there who must like this game at least as much as I do should also think about the consequences of a small cadre of players who pick on newer players who don't know any better. I realize most of IE has probably been around longer than I have, but they have also probably been around a fraction of the time the people on this thread telling them they should have known better have. Fairness, morality and "the rules" are all ridiculous arguments about why Lemon should not pick on the unwary, but I don't know if that is what is good for this game right now. Maybe it's not your job to care about that, but if you have played this game for as many hours as I guess you have at this point I have to assume that it's in your interest to. IE may have no right to complain, but Lemon probably needs to not get a free pass on this. At one time it may have made sense for the teams on top to keep the teams on the bottom from ascending too quickly, but right now SS needs to think about expanding its player base. Plus this whole thread exists because Lemon felt the need to brag about beating the crap out of some low level team that thought it had picked what effectively is an out of the way area that no one care about whether its W3 or not. The fact that there are W3 areas that no one really cares about should tell people that now is not a good time to go beat up rookie teams. Lemon should go pick on Traders or EF. The rest of the non pirate player base might want to consider trying to do something to support newer players besides criticize them for not realizing that there are some assholes in this game. Wtf dude, that wall of txt would make even Churchill jealous |
Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:28 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Main: Dark Steel Level: 9138 Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:35 am Posts: 2068 Location: Netherlands |
Yeah because Churchill's post were always just a list of bullshit and this guy is spot on.
_________________ ~DarkSteel / Auxilium Universe Map: http://www.starsonata.com/map/ |
Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:33 am |
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Team:
Rank: Main: TMOI Level: 1825 Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:23 pm Posts: 66 |
EwanB wrote: So what this topic is basicly coming to...we all should gang on RF and throw them out of the game? I don't actually want to pick on RF all that much. But I do want to point out that this kind of bullying behavior is poorly timed in the game at this moment. Maybe IE has no right to complain, but we shouldn't all just be cool with it when someone wipes a team for shots and giggles when there aren't even enough teams out there to fill up W3. If they had been at least wiped by a nearby team or someone with some real interest, so be it. But I just don't think we want this kind of crap in the game right now. I get that end game content should be hard to get and you should have to set it up right to get serious end game content. That still doesn't mean that the player base has no reason to care when Lemon takes it on himself to brag about beating the life out of a team. For the record btw, I don't have any grudge against lemon or RF. I don't think they are immoral horrible people, I just think we should consider policing the kind of behavior they demonstrated here no matter who does it. WS fight should happen because WS is full. If there was less of this we might see WS filling up again. |
Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:11 am |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
Don't get carried away here. IE is perfectly able to reclaim most of their space and resume earning colo profits at essentially no loss other than replacement StM kits. It's not like RF demoed IE's computers.
_________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:21 am |
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