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Rank: Operator Main: reaper pride Level: 5779 Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:51 pm Posts: 817 Location: Scotland, UK |
Yup im to thick to read this topic.
_________________ Its my opinion, if you dont like it thats your problem. GET OVER IT!!! |
Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:22 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Unholychaos Level: 4772 Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:01 pm Posts: 31 |
What exactly is the variable T coming from? I see T=2 and T=1 but I'm unsure about where you are getting these numbers.
Edit: wait I think I get it. T is the total tweaking value of the combined tweaking skills. So someone with only AT 25 will have a T value of 2, and AT 23 will have a T value of 1.92 correct? Last edited by csharp987 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total. |
Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:51 am |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
csharp987 wrote: What exactly is the variable T coming from? I see T=2 and T=1 but I'm unsure about where you are getting these numbers. Edit: wait I think I get it. T is the total tweaking value of the combined tweaking skills. So someone with only AT 25 will have a T value of 2, and AT 23 will have a T value of 1.97 correct? AT 23 would correspond to T = 1.92 but yes. When I do informal calculations I use T = 2.02 assuming AT 25 and IT 1. _________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:59 am |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Unholychaos Level: 4772 Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:01 pm Posts: 31 |
Ok, so say for instance I have a dread. 80% resist, 2 augs giving 15% resist each, and AT 23. After plugging in the numbers, I got a final resistance of 87.31%. Is this correct?
Edit: Then adding a 25% diffuser would give a resist of 90%. If that's correct, then I'm shocked at how miniscule the diffuser's effects really are |
Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:05 am |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
2 augs each with 15% resistance, AT 23, means 1.92*2*.15 = 0.576 total contribution from augs. We start with the ship's base vulnerability 1 - 0.8:
0.2 / (1+0.576) = 0.1269 In terms of resistance, that is indeed 1-0.1269 = 87.31%. The 25% diffuser further reduces 0.1269 by a factor of (1-0.25), yielding 0.1269 * 0.75 = 0.095177 or 90.48% resistance. What you are missing is that no matter what resistance you start out at, the diffuser always reduces your incoming damage by 25%. Of course if your resistance is already high, the absolute amount of damage the diffuser deflects will be lower. Once you start thinking in terms of vulnerability your confusion will dissipate. Honestly, thinking in terms of resistance (i.e. 1 - vulnerability) is like doing math while standing on your head. _________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:20 am |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Unholychaos Level: 4772 Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:01 pm Posts: 31 |
So virtually what your saying is that, according to the calculations, using diffusers on top of an already high resistance would be a waste since the effect they have at greater numbers is diminished.
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Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:59 pm |
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Member
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Rank: Main: Rhys Level: 3919 Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:57 pm Posts: 701 |
Think the answer is probably, maybe, most likely, definitively, no. Where'd you get that conclusion?
_________________ The fundamental difference between a trader and an investor - an investment, from a trader's perspective, is a trade gone bad. |
Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:04 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Unholychaos Level: 4772 Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:01 pm Posts: 31 |
According to the above calcs, using a 25% diff on something that has a resist of 87% after factoring in augs and tweaking would only add 3% more resistance leading me to believe that using a diff at high lvls of resistance is rather pointless due to the minimal effect it has
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Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:50 pm |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
+3% resistance to 97% is 100% (immune). Still seem pointless? You need to stop thinking in terms of resistances and start thinking in terms of vulnerability (1 - resistance).
+3% resistance starting at 0% means you will simply take 3% less damage. +3% resistance starting at 50% means you will take (1-.53)/(1-.5) = 0.94 (i.e. 6% less damage). +3% resistance starting at 90% means you will take (1-.93)/(1-.9) = 0.7 (i.e. 30% less damage). Get it yet? _________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:36 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Unholychaos Level: 4772 Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:01 pm Posts: 31 |
The point I'm trying to make (and understand myself) is that a 25% diffuser at 87% resistance would be a negligible increase on paper. Performance wise may be a completely different story, but from the looks of it, the diffuser wouldn't make a huge noticable effect. Sure 90% is better than 87% in every aspect, but would it make a difference to the shm healing you? Would they notice the difference when the diffuser breaks? At 3%, more than likely not, but I'm not a shm so my POV is narrow in that aspect
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Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:24 am |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
I have made it as clear as I can. Send me a forum PM if you want to continue the conversation. If not, what you should take away from this is:
1) Diffusers reduce incoming damage by the same fraction no matter what your resistances are. 2) Adding resistance numbers together is a very misleading way to think about the mechanic. This whole thing is only tangentially related to the thread so let's end the public conversation now. _________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:04 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Director Main: Hober Mallow Level: 5127 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
I am bumping this because I envy you enkelin. You seem to have such a fluid grasp of math, not only are you able to put this arithmetic in easy to understand formulas but you can explain it as well.
Thank you for these formulas man. People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:37 am |
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Team:
Rank: Main: Lithium Level: 3185 Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:22 am Posts: 186 Location: A tree. A road. Midnight. |
MasterTrader wrote: I am bumping this because I envy you enkelin. You seem to have such a fluid grasp of math, not only are you able to put this arithmetic in easy to understand formulas but you can explain it as well. Thank you for these formulas man. People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself. No, we get angry when we tell you a stock-fucking-standard set-up, that near everyone ingame will attest too, DEMONSTRATE it to work in practice and then you STILL demand that WE do the calculations FOR YOU. -Plat _________________ You should never trust atoms - they make up everything. Estragon: Well, shall we go? Vladimir: Yes, let's go. [They do not move]. |
Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:57 am |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Director Main: Hober Mallow Level: 5127 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
Platinum wrote: MasterTrader wrote: I am bumping this because I envy you enkelin. You seem to have such a fluid grasp of math, not only are you able to put this arithmetic in easy to understand formulas but you can explain it as well. Thank you for these formulas man. People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself. No, we get angry when we tell you a stock-fucking-standard set-up, that near everyone ingame will attest too, DEMONSTRATE it to work in practice and then you STILL demand that WE do the calculations FOR YOU. -Plat Oh my god... I asked for a number, that's all. Just one number. I had done the calculations and I had a number, I wanted to compare the number I had to the number that was displayed in game in order to check my math. I wanted to check to find the exact answer so I could compare it. I didn't tell anyone they were wrong, and I didn't ask for help... ALSO, this comment wasn't about the situation WE had a week or so ago. I had a debate with someone a day or so ago about a totally different situation, and they refused to even consider that there could be an alternative. ANYWAY Can we not do this on the forum please baby? Pretty please? _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:26 am |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
Thanks, Hober. I have thought about reformatting the guide using proper mathematical notation to make it easier to read, but there has never been enough demand. One day, perhaps.
_________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:59 am |
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