Star Sonata :: View topic - Augmenter Bonus Calculation

csharp987 wrote:

What exactly is the variable T coming from? I see T=2 and T=1 but I'm unsure about where you are getting these numbers.

Edit: wait I think I get it. T is the total tweaking value of the combined tweaking skills. So someone with only AT 25 will have a T value of 2, and AT 23 will have a T value of 1.97 correct?

MasterTrader wrote:

I am bumping this because I envy you enkelin. You seem to have such a fluid grasp of math, not only are you able to put this arithmetic in easy to understand formulas but you can explain it as well.

Thank you for these formulas man.

People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself.

Platinum wrote:

MasterTrader wrote:

People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself.

No, we get angry when we tell you a stock-fucking-standard set-up, that near everyone ingame will attest too, DEMONSTRATE it to work in practice and then you STILL demand that WE do the calculations FOR YOU.

-Plat

Author:	xzume [ Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
Yup im to thick to read this topic.

Author:	csharp987 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
What exactly is the variable T coming from? I see T=2 and T=1 but I'm unsure about where you are getting these numbers. Edit: wait I think I get it. T is the total tweaking value of the combined tweaking skills. So someone with only AT 25 will have a T value of 2, and AT 23 will have a T value of 1.92 correct?

Author:	anilv [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
csharp987 wrote: What exactly is the variable T coming from? I see T=2 and T=1 but I'm unsure about where you are getting these numbers. Edit: wait I think I get it. T is the total tweaking value of the combined tweaking skills. So someone with only AT 25 will have a T value of 2, and AT 23 will have a T value of 1.97 correct? AT 23 would correspond to T = 1.92 but yes. When I do informal calculations I use T = 2.02 assuming AT 25 and IT 1.

Author:	csharp987 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
Ok, so say for instance I have a dread. 80% resist, 2 augs giving 15% resist each, and AT 23. After plugging in the numbers, I got a final resistance of 87.31%. Is this correct? Edit: Then adding a 25% diffuser would give a resist of 90%. If that's correct, then I'm shocked at how miniscule the diffuser's effects really are

Author:	anilv [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
2 augs each with 15% resistance, AT 23, means 1.922.15 = 0.576 total contribution from augs. We start with the ship's base vulnerability 1 - 0.8: 0.2 / (1+0.576) = 0.1269 In terms of resistance, that is indeed 1-0.1269 = 87.31%. The 25% diffuser further reduces 0.1269 by a factor of (1-0.25), yielding 0.1269 * 0.75 = 0.095177 or 90.48% resistance. What you are missing is that no matter what resistance you start out at, the diffuser always reduces your incoming damage by 25%. Of course if your resistance is already high, the absolute amount of damage the diffuser deflects will be lower. Once you start thinking in terms of vulnerability your confusion will dissipate. Honestly, thinking in terms of resistance (i.e. 1 - vulnerability) is like doing math while standing on your head.

Star Sonata http://forum.starsonata.com/

Augmenter Bonus Calculation http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42444	Page 7 of 9

Author:	csharp987 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
So virtually what your saying is that, according to the calculations, using diffusers on top of an already high resistance would be a waste since the effect they have at greater numbers is diminished.

Author:	Rounder [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
Think the answer is probably, maybe, most likely, definitively, no. Where'd you get that conclusion?

Author:	csharp987 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
According to the above calcs, using a 25% diff on something that has a resist of 87% after factoring in augs and tweaking would only add 3% more resistance leading me to believe that using a diff at high lvls of resistance is rather pointless due to the minimal effect it has

Author:	anilv [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
+3% resistance to 97% is 100% (immune). Still seem pointless? You need to stop thinking in terms of resistances and start thinking in terms of vulnerability (1 - resistance). +3% resistance starting at 0% means you will simply take 3% less damage. +3% resistance starting at 50% means you will take (1-.53)/(1-.5) = 0.94 (i.e. 6% less damage). +3% resistance starting at 90% means you will take (1-.93)/(1-.9) = 0.7 (i.e. 30% less damage). Get it yet?

Author:	csharp987 [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
The point I'm trying to make (and understand myself) is that a 25% diffuser at 87% resistance would be a negligible increase on paper. Performance wise may be a completely different story, but from the looks of it, the diffuser wouldn't make a huge noticable effect. Sure 90% is better than 87% in every aspect, but would it make a difference to the shm healing you? Would they notice the difference when the diffuser breaks? At 3%, more than likely not, but I'm not a shm so my POV is narrow in that aspect

Author:	anilv [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
I have made it as clear as I can. Send me a forum PM if you want to continue the conversation. If not, what you should take away from this is: 1) Diffusers reduce incoming damage by the same fraction no matter what your resistances are. 2) Adding resistance numbers together is a very misleading way to think about the mechanic. This whole thing is only tangentially related to the thread so let's end the public conversation now.

Author:	MasterTrader [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
I am bumping this because I envy you enkelin. You seem to have such a fluid grasp of math, not only are you able to put this arithmetic in easy to understand formulas but you can explain it as well. Thank you for these formulas man. People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself.

Author:	Platinum [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
MasterTrader wrote: I am bumping this because I envy you enkelin. You seem to have such a fluid grasp of math, not only are you able to put this arithmetic in easy to understand formulas but you can explain it as well. Thank you for these formulas man. People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself. No, we get angry when we tell you a stock-fucking-standard set-up, that near everyone ingame will attest too, DEMONSTRATE it to work in practice and then you STILL demand that WE do the calculations FOR YOU. -Plat

Author:	MasterTrader [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
Platinum wrote: MasterTrader wrote: I am bumping this because I envy you enkelin. You seem to have such a fluid grasp of math, not only are you able to put this arithmetic in easy to understand formulas but you can explain it as well. Thank you for these formulas man. People get angry when you challenge conventional wisdom and ask them to prove their statements with math, so I've learned to just calculate it and keep it to myself. No, we get angry when we tell you a stock-fucking-standard set-up, that near everyone ingame will attest too, DEMONSTRATE it to work in practice and then you STILL demand that WE do the calculations FOR YOU. -Plat Oh my god... I asked for a number, that's all. Just one number. I had done the calculations and I had a number, I wanted to compare the number I had to the number that was displayed in game in order to check my math. I wanted to check to find the exact answer so I could compare it. I didn't tell anyone they were wrong, and I didn't ask for help... ALSO, this comment wasn't about the situation WE had a week or so ago. I had a debate with someone a day or so ago about a totally different situation, and they refused to even consider that there could be an alternative. ANYWAY Can we not do this on the forum please baby? Pretty please?

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Author:	anilv [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Augmenter Bonus Calculation
Thanks, Hober. I have thought about reformatting the guide using proper mathematical notation to make it easier to read, but there has never been enough demand. One day, perhaps.