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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
That will be misleading because new players will think artefacts are the best when they are around junk level

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:49 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
sabre198 wrote:
That will be misleading because new players will think artefacts are the best when they are around junk level


Most of them are very good, actually. However, lots of things conflict.

--There are subT13 energies that need Enukes. They're damn good, but there's a distinct lack of enuke usage until you run into a Giga Yallow/Kidd Grid for a damned good reason. Same goes for Prom based energies. And don't get me started on the piece of shits that use Infernal Cells or Vis.

--Each tech you go up is a massive power budget increase, in terms of stats. A T19 ship may be awesome, but the gap between it and a decent T20 ship is like caveman with rock to nuclear powered carrier.

--Certain tech levels are also massive augmenter power boosters. In general, T20 augs are about double the realistic strength of subT20. Combine that with the huge power budget increase for being a higher tech and you get crazy advantages even in a Vulture.

--Ruin distribution is completely and utterly random. You can sit in a DF 9001 galaxy with your T80 bases in each galaxy and ... still get a T0 ruin. In fact, you have a serious chance of only having subT10 ruins.

--Ruins take time to find, build colony, and extract. The speed of subT20 progression is so quick you could find a Bule Super Sidhe (one of the few actually good subT20 ruins) and by the time you actually extract it, be in a Pax Venaticora.

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:09 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
carterstrain wrote:
sabre198 wrote:
That will be misleading because new players will think artefacts are the best when they are around junk level


Most of them are very good, actually. However, lots of things conflict.


A lot of them are good, but the issue is the cost to effect. You can buy low tech ruin engines for a couple hundred mil to a couple bil, or you can spend like 10m at an AI base for 100 less turning and 200 less thrust.

Ruins exist for leveling your rich alts as far as this game is concerned. Putting them in their own color and making new players want them is kind of fucking over the new guys.


Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:30 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Ruins exist for leveling your rich alts as far as this game is concerned. Putting them in their own color and making new players want them is kind of fucking over the new guys.


Only, and if only, they stay the way they are currently. I'm all for sticking ruins up at the high point as long as the points I made are solved.

-- If players level sooo fucking fast. Then bog them down with content and higher SP costing skills.

-- If players deliberately avoid using exotic fueled energies. Then buff the crap out of them, or change fuel mechanic bonus, or simply remove them until the average player can obtain said fuel.

-- If a simple change in tech level results in a massive power jump, then ... stratify the game properly and buff the appropriate items to make up for that change. Low tech ruin ships don't have the benefit of higher tech augs (specifically those T19 ones). So make them real powerhouses that are balanced by using weaker augs.

-- If players do not obtain ruins prior to a certain tech level on average, simply remove those low tech ruins from the prize pool. Any low tech commodity ruins (an item exclusively used in a build or skill) can stay.

-- If players are miffed about getting T0 ruins in DF300, or Paxian Holocube ruins, simply remove them from the prize pool. Level 3000 players ... even with low level alts, are still going to see them as a waste of time.

-- If ruins take time to obtain from a colony, slow down the progression process so they can be obtained and actually used. Make the powerful artifacts worth fighting over.

-- If specific ruins are weak (after all the above points), then explain to the admins why they're weak, how they can be buffed, and stick them in a suggestion. Star Sonata is not like American Federal Congress where they deliberately don't do anything and excommunicate you if you try compromising to get shit done. Don't bitch about how they're weak before putting in the time. I swear, you act exactly like HPA sometimes.

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:51 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
carterstrain wrote:
Mallet = Common
Hammer = Rare
Striker = Heroic
Maul = Legendary

That's how I concluded.


So you wanna list Mallets at the same level as Titan Pulseguns? It has to be uncommon at the very least.

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:45 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
call the wise ones to tell us what tier everything shall be, they will form a committee and deem everything junk tier except thier own gear which will be legendary ofc. :lol:

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:48 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
sabre198 wrote:
call the wise ones to tell us what tier everything shall be, they will form a committee and deem everything junk tier except thier own gear which will be legendary ofc. :lol:


My previous post is contradicting what you just said. That is, if you think I'm one of the "wise ones" :P

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:50 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
ew you use mallets?

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:54 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
heylo wrote:
carterstrain wrote:
Mallet = Common
Hammer = Rare
Striker = Heroic
Maul = Legendary

That's how I concluded.


So you wanna list Mallets at the same level as Titan Pulseguns? It has to be uncommon at the very least.


Titan Pulse Guns are junk. Junk lists as the majority of AI station items, including FM Plus, OS, Giga, Micro, and Nano versions.

Common is mostly junk stuff like Mallets. Stuff that is classified as 0.75 Tier. A very few AI base items are included, like the stuff in Kalthi Stronghold.

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:29 am
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
Ruin items are not junk for most of the game. In fact, they're likely the best there are.
Find me a shield that beats a Vazaha Sanctuary X at T17 while not taking massively higher space.
Heck, I bet you can't even find any if we raise the limit to T19.


Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:58 pm
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
Xonok2 wrote:
Ruin items are not junk for most of the game. In fact, they're likely the best there are.
Find me a shield that beats a Vazaha Sanctuary X at T17 while not taking massively higher space.
Heck, I bet you can't even find any if we raise the limit to T19.


Find something better than a Paxian Mythos Fire.

Oh, wait ... isn't a Nuclear Steam Power better?

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Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
carterstrain wrote:
Find something better than a Paxian Mythos Fire.

Oh, wait ... isn't a Nuclear Steam Power better?


Is 4,500 bank and 243.33 reg better than
7000 bank and 248.33 reg?


Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
Xonok2 wrote:
Ruin items are not junk for most of the game. In fact, they're likely the best there are.
Find me a shield that beats a Vazaha Sanctuary X at T17 while not taking massively higher space.
Heck, I bet you can't even find any if we raise the limit to T19.


Ghoulstop + Charger beats it for most purposes. The regen is small anyway.
Sure, it's twice the space.. but I don't think 331 is that much.

There are some decent ruin items. But there are also many, many at the Bule Angelic Paintjob tier.

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Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
Yeah, but Sanctuary XX + Charger beats Ghoulstop + Charger, while taking less space.
Besides, find me a charger that gives 52 reg at 1.8 RPE.


Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:01 pm
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Post Re: Item Tiers for Rarity
Xonok2 wrote:
carterstrain wrote:
Find something better than a Paxian Mythos Fire.

Oh, wait ... isn't a Nuclear Steam Power better?


Is 4,500 bank and 243.33 reg better than
7000 bank and 248.33 reg?


When you realize the Nuke Steam Power runs on Baobabs, an ultra abundant fuel, and Paxian Mythos Fire runs on Vis, a completely unique fuel that people don't carry around; that the PMF is a rare ruin that costs a bil to extract; and that if you go up two techs, you can get an item that costs 150m and blows the PMF out of the water with more regen, much smaller size, a small aug bonus, and DOESN'T USE FUEL.

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Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:22 pm
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