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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
On further consideration I am inclined to say that the change to Sniper makes them a little to weak in PvB compared to Berserker and Gunner. Sniper is already less tanky than those two classes which makes them a challenge to use in PvB in the first place. If this change goes in, Prawn Snipers will mostly do less mining DPS than endgame Berserkers and Gunners (yes, I calced it).

I propose that Sniper analysis be made to charge up to 50% of its current stats, over the course of 3 minutes. Must be hitting the target to charge, as stated.

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Thu May 30, 2013 1:11 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
The proposed gunner changes sure seem fun.


Thu May 30, 2013 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
For gunner instead of some super item missile that does -50% resist how about a gunner aura that give -20% resist instead.

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Thu May 30, 2013 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
I think I well sub my other account to test all this out. Shame zerk did not get just a bit more bonus to aggro gain, I feel zerker should not need evil gear and evil gear should be used for other classes that wish to hold aggro in a run. Zerk class should preform what other classes have to use evil gear to do.

Bet you SD pvp going to be even more badass now, also soloing bosses and dging and pretty much everything that uses a gun to fix the problem.

Seer just going to take testing to see, atm Seer can solo dps bosses faster than a zerker and this -elect temp well make them even better at killing bosses, so thats cool.

Why does Sniper need to loose function of stealth building SA? makes for stealth sniper play bit lame.

Gunner just sounds fun again. Also come on, give gunner some sort of cap ship aura, like make missiles fly faster with aura on but takes lots of elect to run aura?

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Thu May 30, 2013 3:03 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
I think adding a aura for gunner is a very good idea, as for the automated firing thing, i'm a bit confused on it, wont it just run the gunner out of elec really fast? i mean i don't think that a -5% elec temp is gonna help when you'r firing your main gun while shooting missiles, while have the automated one fire as well, just seems a bit to much of elec needed to sustain. perhaps add an option to turn off or on the automated thingy.


Also being able to fit all these items seems a bit to hard, maybe give the gunner a skill to add hull, like take out the destruction skills and add a hull increase skill.


Also i think that more capital ships need to be available right now as t20 gunner their isn't much to choose from other than efdn and pbf, same goes to t22, ZT RPW or MZ maybe add a Bana Capital Ship, i know its in the SS story line as thats what the paxians were trying to kill in the missions at hyperion, i think a bana cap ship would be a cool thing, maybe make it t22 or t21


As for the super items they seem to be alright, but the duration of them seem to be a bit short, maybe extend them to 10sec~ the super items would be useless if the gunner was soloing things by itself, my guess would be to try and use the debuff from the super items in combination with the missiles to get max damage out of it, but for 3 sec im not to sure if the missiles would be able to hit the target in time to be able to benefit from the debuff, it takes about 1sec to launch, 3~ for mirvs to burst then more time to travel to the target, but then again i understand that this would be a bit to OP if you were in a squad with prawn snipers and stuff, so maybe add like 2 separate categories of duration, like -50% resist of the nuke missiles for 3sec, and during this time other players damage would benefit, but make a separate one for missiles that last 10sec,

i'm not to sure if this makes sense to anyone

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Thu May 30, 2013 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Maybe you've tested this already but I have the same concern as a lot of people, elec. Just launching MIRVs takes a lot of elec, firing 10 weapons, assuming that each weapon is actually useful it is going to take an amazing amount of elec. Just test that please.

Secondly no one has said this oddly enough. PvP and base PvP? what happens if you're fighting 5 people on another team, will it target everyone? Will gunner bases shoot multiple people in a pvb squad?

Glad to see gunner changes coming in. Please please please look into adding more missiles, just remember the gunner class is based on using missiles and we still have almost no good options when it comes it missiles.

Wolf

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Thu May 30, 2013 6:26 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
redalert150 wrote:
For gunner instead of some super item missile that does -50% resist how about a gunner aura that give -20% resist instead.


Destruction is an aura.
Weaker auras affecting the same stats are canceled by the stronger aura.
-20% Resist auras like the one you suggested don't actually reduce a ship's resists. It simply makes damage hurt more. A ship with 50% resists and a degen of 1000 while passing over a sun will still be at 50% resist and 1000 degen even though you have an aura on them that "says -99% resist"

But if you shoot the ship, you will do 100x more damage. So basically, it's another way to say a +Damage% aura, like the ones that Fleet Commander carry around, and it's roughly half the strength of the FC aura.

Now considering Destruction is also a negative resist aura, if the Gunner actually shoots the target with the damage type his group is using, then the actual aura generator amounts to nothing.

So the Gunner essentially becomes a half assed Fleet Commander that use missiles instead of fighters.



CJ's suggestion for a gunner aura sounds much better, and doesn't directly intrude on Fleet Commander territory.


Thu May 30, 2013 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
WolfX28 wrote:
Secondly no one has said this oddly enough. PvP and base PvP? what happens if you're fighting 5 people on another team, will it target everyone? Will gunner bases shoot multiple people in a pvb squad?

Wolf


That would be awesome.

Perhaps it would be better, if bases dealt lower damage per weapon, but were able to shoot multiple targets if they got enough guns?


Thu May 30, 2013 7:39 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
JeffL wrote:
Speed Demon

Speed Demon will gain more DPS and survivability.

  • Change Speedy firing from +20% damage, +80% firing, to +60% damage, +60% firing.
  • Speedy Movement gains a "dodge" skill that scales with speed giving a ((speed diff+100) / 1000) chance to dodge all lasers and bullets. Speed diff is calculated as the absolute diff in speed with the shooter of lasers, or the diff in speed with bullets. When he dodges, the ship will graphically do a quick barrel roll. Tractor beams prevent dodging.


Seer

Seer will gain more debuffing abilities, survivability, and also gain some sustained DPS.

  • Psionic Shrouding gives Seer 1-((visibility + 10) / 100) chance to avoid damage
  • Seer Skill gives -40% electric tempering
  • Seer Skill gives +100% damage on all weapons that have parasites (both actual weapon damage, and damage from the parasites)
  • Adding in new type of diffuser that reduces reflectivity
  • Adding in new augmenter stat that reduces reflectivity
  • Seer class super item that does electron clouds to help in bright galaxies
  • Adding in some augs (and possibly items) that reduce reflectivity

all seers really need is more radar. More dead bases.


Berserker

No changes at this time.

the class most needing a change. Get rid of the requirement to hold 5 of each weapon in order to MF them, get rid of the speed nerf. As a solo class it is the most useless class in the game.


Sniper

  • Reduce the time it takes to get full analysis to a third, and reduce the max bonus to a third.
  • Sniper analysis changes from a time thing, to a per-hit thing. When the sniper hits his target, he gains analysis equal to the recoil of his shot. If he targets and hits another target, any old analysis is cleared on previous targets. Hitting an untargeted ship does not effect analysis, nor does switching targets as long as the sniper doesn't shoot while he's targeting someone other than the target being analyzed.

A normal sniper depends on stealth. The change in analysis from time to hits will make them too visible.
This change is ideal for SD but not for sniper.



Shield Monkey / Engineer

  • Hephaestus Machine: reduce energy resist to 40%. Change inbuilt elec from 200 to 150.


Fleet Commander

No change.

Fighters will be toast with the new point defence gunner skills


Gunner

Gunner gains more debuffing abilities and gains enormous ability to spew out damage in all directions. He should be able to do the most DPS in the game, but it will be untargeted DPS, in that it is spread to multiple targets simultaneously.

  • Gunner skill gives 100% multifiring at level 1, no incremental multifiring bonus. Slaves will also get 100% multifiring.
  • Missile Mastery also causes super items to charge 3x faster at level 20
  • Gunner gains automated targeting of 1 extra weapon per 2 levels of Gunner skill, starting at level 4. As long as gunner is holding down the fire key, the gunner will automatically cycle through hostile targets and shoot at targets in range of other weapons one at a time with the best non-selected weapon (or pair of weapons) that isn't currently on cooldown. Limit automated targeting to one extra attack per 300ms. Turret based firing gets 360 degree aiming. This does not use the currently selected weapon and does not shoot at the currently selected target. Each pair of weapons gets automatically assigned to one target by a targeting computer. Up to 8 weapons can be used simultaneously in addition to the two main guns for a total of 10.
  • Gunner gets -5% electric tempering per gun that that has fired in the last 5 seconds, with a maximum bonus of -50%
  • New class-locked debuffing super item missile that gives targets in an area -50% resistall
  • Class-locked debuffing super item that gives target -1000/s (?) energy that lasts for 3 seconds and takes 9 seconds (base) to charge
  • Adding several more weapon slots to most capital ships in the game so that gunner shouldn't have a problem getting at least 10 weapons on most ships he would want to use.
  • Any changes to missiles to be determined.

All these extra weapons take hull you will need to increase the hull as well.
Will all this extra firepower directed at peripheral targets gunners are going to be the point defence experts. This is going to DRAMATICALLY effect fighters and missiles. This has implications for FC.
Further the changes to Gunner are not really extensive, most gunners already MF, no change there, the extra weapons will not target the primary target overall I like it. Especially as the missile nerf is not currently on the table



Note: Along with the nerf to overall Sniper DPS, several ubers, such as Zeus and his mini bosses, will have their max shields reduced.


This will have to be much more extensive than a few ubers. Poor Calypso has been balancing content for T22 and now this is a major revamp of the main DPS class. It would be a total disaster to release T22 and this major revamp at the same time. One or other will have to be delayed


Fri May 31, 2013 5:05 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
tbh i think snipers analysis should be removed COMPLETELY, just cause no class should get free DPS like that, it's just stupid, but the change is ok i guess, will be interesting to see how it will effect certain uber runs...im sure it can be easily countered with sterile cannon or something to gain the anal needed

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Fri May 31, 2013 8:02 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
A normal Sniper can forgo stealth if it actually built itself to deal damage. I was dging in a fucking Zebra with a Wattage augmenter. It's not hard. Range and DPS are your friends. A cloak will get you most of the way.

High level Seer is fine, low level seer is not. I'm pretty sure the dodge component is aimed at Seers that can't make 300k EHP at level 200, which is to say all of them. At low levels for Seer, you can either do damage and have shitty defenses and fail stealth, or not do damage and have to rely on slaves...which is a Fleet Commander, not a Seer. Low level Seer is also fucked if running through a Red Giant galaxy, and most DG's have at least one of them. Shit defense, no damage, and no where to run. That's a Red Giant sun level to a low to mid level Seer. It's extremely unfair and definitely not fun.

The point is to encourage new players to choose a class based on preferences and interest, not have them go FC or Gunner for the first 2000 levels and then they choose a class.

Jeff_L stated at the very beginning of Gunner class that no matter what they do to it, it will be the Anti-Capital class. If you're not another Gunner and in a Capital Ship, don't fucking attack one alone. Gunner vs FC, Gunner gonna win.

And Calypso is not the ONLY content developer in the development team.


Fri May 31, 2013 10:59 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Chaosking3 wrote:
FC, what Thermal said. The class is falling behind right now due to their t18 max slaves/augs and lack of any effective fighters besides holiday ones. He also made a very valid point about Radiation being their main damage type. We used to be able to easily solo everything but KKK before the resist increase, now the class is just meh for anything but an aura boat.


Possibly. Jey seems to think FC is plenty powerful enough, but I think he might be biased by his own awesomeness. We're talking about adding in RC 19. If we do that (and it seems like we probably should), then that should help FC a bit.

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Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:00 am
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
longname wrote:
-Visiblity already affects detection distance. Would the new stat affect it as well or just enviroment visiblity?


-Visibility affects overall visibility. -reflectivity will affect the visibility increase/decrease from suns. This stat will help Seers be stealthy in galaxies with bright suns at the expense of a loss in gain from dark suns, but it won't affect their visibility from gear, firing, thrust, or hull.

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Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:03 am
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
anilv wrote:
If a recon focus dodge procs, does that mean that any critical hit effects are not applied? Does it mean that diffusers don't get a chance to break?


If the SD dodges, then bullets and lasers just keep on going, potentially hitting something else on the other side.

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Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:04 am
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
potato8 wrote:
Yet again JeffL's ideas take precedence over what the player base has been suggesting over the course of 2 years. Shall I make a list of more important changes to class skills? Cause ill be here all day.


Please do.

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Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:05 am
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