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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Vikings also did not fly space ships. Real life cannot be used to balance a game.

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Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:58 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
JeffL wrote:
Russell wrote:
the class most needing a change. Get rid of the requirement to hold 5 of each weapon in order to MF them, get rid of the speed nerf. As a solo class it is the most useless class in the game.


I was lobbying for a change to zerker where they lost some of their resists, but also lost all the speed nerf and gained major inertial dampening, but I was shouted down pretty resoundingly. I actually would really like to get rid of the zerker speed nerf, but feel like zerker is one of the best classes, with both great defense and offense, so feel like if they lose the speed nerf, they should also be nerfed in some other way as compensation.


personally i think they need to keep their resists, and from experience, the speed nerf isnt really that much of a problem.

the best thing i can think of to make beserkers less vulnerable to snipers, would be to give beserkers a major inbuilt resistance to critical hit effects.

the inbuilt inertial dampening is a good idea, but with inertial damps already existing as items, it might be better to instead change the wattage so that it can equip an inertial dampener.


Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
landswimmer wrote:
the best thing i can think of to make beserkers less vulnerable to snipers, would be to give beserkers a major inbuilt resistance to critical hit effects.


Or, remove critical hit effects altogether, and beef Zerk somewhere else that may be better for solo players. When was the last time you even saw a solo zerk, and how many solo zerks did you see compared to solo anything else?


Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
All zerker needs is maybe just a tiny bit more -elect temp in the class and more aggro bonus in the class, pretty much standard for tech 21 zerkers to use a Dwatt, and zerkers pretty much all use TaF or MCR, or ZOE, do you see a patern? All zerkers are using gear that gives -elect temp. Why do we do this? Because smart and successful players use gear and augs to cover weak points in the class or ship. Idk how I can make this more cut and dry for you admins.

Church asks why do we not see solo zerkers? It's because it takes more thought and effort then just using a sniper, and much of the SS community are stupid, and lazy.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:13 am
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Comandor_J wrote:
Church asks why do we not see solo zerkers? It's because it takes more thought and effort then just using a sniper, and much of the SS community are stupid, and lazy.

Or they simply ain't willing to cut off a hand if they don't have to.


Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:54 am
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
While you're at it, you should take a look at FC. Maybe add some tech 18 ships that require SM (slave mast) 19, 20, 21, and 22 for higher tier slaves. HFs, Freighters, and Capships alike in those techs would be useful. Possibly even LFs but IDK why anyone would want a LF slave as slaves suck ad dodging.

Right now for FC we reach endgame at around level 1.2-1.5k whereafter we do not see much of a gain in power unless we're Jey and build an awesome BS which is suuper expensive. While we do have main ships t21 like RPC and ZT, they don't add to our overall DPS; they just let us tank for a couple more seconds in a fight.

Also you should consider adding some controlbots techs 15-22 that rival that of a MF bot. All FCs use are MF bots because they give a straight 100% boost in damage and in most cases the slaves can power the weapons.

Just some things to think about.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:33 am
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Slaves will still scale with t22 gear. FCs in general are very useful in a squad enviroment (auras + tractors) and super powerful in solo-play. I have not used my FC in pvp, but from what I've seen from certain players, they are far from useless. I do not think that a straight up FC beef is necessary.

Instead of a straight up beef to FC, I would like more utility, such as the ability to heal more or less effectively. Some significant bonuses to transference efficiency as well as more non-locked augs with transference power/efficiency would be great.

I agree that there is a lack of slave variety. Two proper selenologicas and you are pretty much set forever unless you fancy a certain t18 aug or some specialized setup. I would definitely like some sort of capship-freighter hybrid that combines a capship's tankiness with a selen's DPS potential while not being huge and unwieldy.

The problem with MF Bots is that they are just waaay too good. +damage on combat bots does not work multiplicative as far as I am aware, making bots such as flaming snownets far from desirable. MF Bots will double a slave's damage, no matter what. While it will also double its elec tempering, energy is quite easy to aug for.
I suggest changing the math behind combat bots. Rebalance them, make them multiplicative. A bot with +20% damage should increase a slave's damage by 20%, independant from augs, gear and whatever. That would almost certainly make MF Bots less desirable towards the endgame while still retaining their usefulness.

One more thing that would be amazingly useful in a lot of situations: Give us the ability to tell our slaves to stop moving while still shooting, if a target is in range! There are so many situations where slaves simply don't work because they wander off and die. My slaves have full tracking etheral weapons, I want them to sit and shoot, not wander and die. Like sniper slaves. Can't be hard to make that behavior triggerable, can it?


tl;dr: Don't beef FC's raw strength. Let us heal stuff more easily. Make combat bot's math multiplicative. Trigger to let slaves sit somewhere and still pewpew.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:00 am
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
I agree, FC does not need any raw beef in stats, but I do agree that fighters need some loving, to make them more needed on the battle front. Atm most of what you see is worthless holiday fighters being used just for shits and giggles, and Lice fighters being used when FC is being serious, but they are holiday fighters that get picked off from time to time.

Ya MF bots are too good, they really need like a -20% elect regen stat to them, but then energized MF bots would be even more sexy. Or maybe MF bots could give -range like the Cerbrus aug does? That way the bot still does loads of damage but makes it weaker in use of pvp play compared to a skirmisher bot.

Also using you mind to make your zerker solo master a dg in not cutting off a hand... Your only gaining more ability that your zerker char can do.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:26 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Comandor_J wrote:

Ya MF bots are too good, they really need like a -20% elect regen stat to them, but then energized MF bots would be even more sexy. Or maybe MF bots could give -range like the Cerbrus aug does?
I think youre missing the point a bit, it's not that mf bots are too overpowered, it's that theyre the only useful bots. Multifiring bots give a multiplicative +100% dam +100%elec temp +100% more likely to crit -50% crit str -50% weapon slots +50% weapon spread and parasites x2.
If other bots were multiplicative ( stacks with augs, class, and OL) i would probably prefer some of them.
For instance, i would probably switch to flaming snownet, because the increase in weapon variety would be WELL worth it to me.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:54 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Why don't you just remove the critical bonuses on Sniper Analysis? Just admit it, that is the only thing you have against Sniper Analysis, and its the only thing which is insanely stupid. I wish you good luck trying to do certain content when this "Rebalance" comes in, the Heph Machine nerf is funnier. What Speed Demon and Seers need is something to help them SCOOP. Give them some more damn hull bonuses, so they can actually do solo DGing.

So basically, most of us have to learn how to play particular classes once again? Good luck with next universe, and by the way you will not get away with this, you will regret some of those changes.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:38 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
RC 20 that would be nice.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
A proper ship for a zerk would be awesome to start with..watt is just crap imo..rocks for pvai sucks for pvp and a prawn just lacks wep slots for a zerk..Make a zerk only prawn..you get a unfinished prawn BP off kidd for zerk/sniper/w.e class and turn it in for a zerk/sniper/w.e class BP.. zerk has more wep slots/resist/hostility sniper more stealth/damage or something?


Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:42 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
Before we continue on any class discussion, I think it would be wise to have one topic for each class. Berserker spawned three 12+ page long topics, so if each class produces that level of discussion, then this topic is going to get filled with tons and tons of spam as people attempt to discuss eight different and on-topic topics within the same topic. Topiception for you.


Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
As long as Massif IIIs cannot be used as trade slaves then RC 19 is fine, else we are talking about a trade slave that is exponentially better than what is available pre RC 19.

As for snipers: While they do decent dps pre-analysis (although not as much as zerkers which also happen to be alot tankier), and generally do more dps with the proposed 33% analysis, a 67% reduction in analysis is somewhere over a -50% dps modifier from their current max dps potential (from my calculations on various end game setups) - a little excessive imo.

Given that gaining analysis is going to be nerfed (which is fine), I think it would be wise not to supplement it with such a big nerf-bat. Allowing up to 50% of current analysis would be much more reasonable and acceptable by the player-base given the prevalence of snipers in the game and keeping them relevant relative to the other classes. A few of these other classes, such as Seer, already do fairly well against snipers in combat and contain much utility value in their own right and are getting beefed, whilst snipers if nerfed excessively, will be relatively irrelevant.

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:15 pm
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Post Re: Proposed Class Rebalance
If your math makes sniper obtain less intial DPS than Zerker that is only because your set-up is based around using a high analysis supporting set-up. That maked sense but now that analysis is being scaled down you do not have to have such a elec support sink.

Sniper is still by far the superior DPS class. We could scrap anal this second and it would still be true. They have no reason to aug for tanking beyond the shields needed to survive cc/mob, all of their DPS is very on target and they have the range to maintain very consistant DPS. I also believe class skills offer way more sustainable DPS but I'll leave that up to someone else.

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Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:58 am
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