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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Ignoring resists is far too powerful because different AI are built in different ways. Kraken isn't 100% resistant to damage, for example, just something like 99%. Seers warps in, gets a lucky shot, and boom, no more kraken. The same goes for almost any oly uber; their resists increase as they get lower on shields, meaning a seer would get an absolutely insane DPS boost from that skill.

Additionally, making it be a simple hard 20% chance is just begging for some people to ragequit. "I didn't get a resistcrit, so i lost, fuck this game!"

Especially since you couldn't effect how often it happened, it would become a source of both being overpowered AND rage.

If you're going to do anything, make them able to ignore diffusers or something, not the ship stats.


As for the 20% chance thing...why not just make it so each time you hit your target and then stealth away, your next strike has a bit higher crit damage %? So if you have the time to spare you could just keep hitting your target and eventually you'd be able to oneshot it.

I suggested this a while ago, and the reason i suggest it again is because i think i thought through the resists modification ideas pretty thoroughly and none of them worked out very well.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:58 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
JaceGannon wrote:
I've always thought a Seer-version of Sniper Analysis would make sense, it charges from 0% to 100% in 3 minutes, and only charges while you are unseen to the targeted ship. (build-up pauses if they see you, and resets if you change target).

Bonus at 100% is like -20% damage resists on target, +10% critical hit, -10% range.


I think there's potential here. Maybe the analysis should only build up over 30 seconds, or perhaps even less depending on the bonus. I also like the touch where it pauses if you are seen by your target (more applicable than the speed-based Sniper version). Maybe the level of analysis should even decline steadily the longer you are visible, to discourage ROF Seers in PvP.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:38 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Griffin wrote:
Make it so that Seer does not get to blast through resists or se, but give the Seer +damage the higher the target's resists are. This way they will be equally useful against high and low resist targets.

This is the essentially the same thing as what we are talking about!
Cygnus wrote:
Additionally, making it be a simple hard 20% chance is just begging for some people to ragequit. "I didn't get a resistcrit, so i lost, fuck this game!"

Especially since you couldn't effect how often it happened, it would become a source of both being overpowered AND rage.

Exactly what I was thinking, lol

Cygnus wrote:
Ignoring resists is far too powerful because different AI are built in different ways. Kraken isn't 100% resistant to damage, for example, just something like 99%. Seers warps in, gets a lucky shot, and boom, no more kraken. The same goes for almost any oly uber; their resists increase as they get lower on shields, meaning a seer would get an absolutely insane DPS boost from that skill.
I do not accept this at all. While part of my intention was giving us some DPS potential, I think you're forgetting how bad a Seer already is at DPS!

Considering maybe the average resists on an Olympus Uber to be maybe around 80% (fair? just a guess!), if we WERE to ignore 100% of that, we'd get an average 500% DPS increase over our old selves! Epic? Yes! How much DPS is that though!? Probably around 15-20k (minus the damage debuff from this change). So about the same as a Speed Demon, and VERY in scale with the game still. (You must remember, DPS is what matters in Uber fights, not DPH)

As for countering issues such as Kraken, or things that shouldn't be dying, I would suggest implementing an XML tag - 'True Armor' if you will - that will ignore the unresistance in intervals of 0%, 50%, 100%! One might say, it's an Unresistance resistant resistance! (trollololol)

My point is, trivial matters such as not killing Kraken, or doing big shiny numbers to ubers are no excuse for keeping a class underpowered and shunned by the game.


Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Never fear, enk is here! I'm about to lay down some sweet maths. Let's see what would happen to the Seer's DPS if it ignored 60% of the target's resist, varying that resistance from 0% to 90%.

Resist = 0: DPS +0%
Resist = 10: DPS +6.7%
Resist = 20: DPS +15%
Resist = 30: DPS +25.7%
Resist = 40: DPS +40%
Resist = 50: DPS +60%
Resist = 60: DPS +90%
Resist = 70: DPS +140%
Resist = 80: DPS +240%
Resist = 90: DPS +540%

Obviously, Seer would need to receive some sort of -damage effect if this is to be balanced against high resistance targets, at least if we are working with the hefty 60% ignored factor.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:53 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Well, seers damage isn't as nerfed as you would imagine :)

Critical hit strength cant be resisted.

So therefore only the base damage gets nerfed, thats why you can still hit 30-40k with high resist ships.

Still, I like it :) ......Alot

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Essentially, you're saying that it's acceptable to give a seer a 540% increase in damage, and because it's only good against certain targets, it's not broken?

...

...

...

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:06 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Griffin wrote:
Make it so that Seer does not get to blast through resists or se, but give the Seer +damage the higher the target's resists are. This way they will be equally useful against high and low resist targets.


Yes, I realize there is a typo.

My idea is golden.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:07 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Cygnus wrote:
Essentially, you're saying that it's acceptable to give a seer a 540% increase in damage, and because it's only good against certain targets, it's not broken?

...

...

...


We only hit like 2k-5kish without a crit....chill...

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
I don't understand why seers should have any more advantage against their target than anyone else. Everyone else has to hit through those resists too, y'know. I'm all for a seer beef, but this is not the way to do it.it.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Don't get all wrapped up in the big numbers (although they seem pretty big, lol)

60% of 90% resists...
Considering the average unresisted hit of say 50k, you're still hitting them for only 20k damage! Of course, we can still DECREASE the suggested amount ignored until it's more reasonable!

I have to go to class, so I'll bicker about this later! :O


Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Normalizing around 30% resistance and still subtracting 60% from the target's resistance, here's what you get:

Resist = 0: DPS -20%
Resist = 10: DPS -15%
Resist = 20: DPS +8%
Resist = 30: DPS +0%
Resist = 40: DPS +11%
Resist = 50: DPS +27%
Resist = 60: DPS +51%
Resist = 70: DPS +90%
Resist = 80: DPS +170%
Resist = 90: DPS +309%

This may sound like a lot on the higher end, but consider that Seers can do maybe 3k DPS to someone with 90% resists (HM ShM with diffusers can get around there). So that would come up to 12k DPS assuming you can get your crit every time, compared to the 200k+ shield bank that target has (if they're using a regen shield). Not so broken at all.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:28 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Cygnus wrote:
Essentially, you're saying that it's acceptable to give a seer a 540% increase in damage, and because it's only good against certain targets, it's not broken?



Once every 5 shots = 108% damage increase. In the worst case scenario.

I don't see the problem.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Cygnus wrote:
I don't understand why seers should have any more advantage against their target than anyone else. Everyone else has to hit through those resists too, y'know. I'm all for a seer beef, but this is not the way to do it.it.


You are assuming he wants a straight up -resists beef, but he has suggested a damage nerf to go with it. The plan is to make them more effective, not broken.


Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:42 pm
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
I hate to be the one to pop the question and I seriously dont mean to be elitist, but am I the only T21 Seer still? I only ask because the DPS potential of a AWC seer(only because I dont have stats on Hermes ship) can match T21 zerker setups(No joke).
Back to why I asked if there was any other T21 Seers yet was because if there isnt, it means you guys are still in Panthers and lolDS's complaining that you cant kill T21 ships.

Perhaps we wait until our Seer are up to date with gear until we start complaining, doubt admins will listen before than :P

-Bad at Games

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We can code an exception for BaG. I'll let Jey know.


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Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:58 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
ping101 wrote:
I hate to be the one to pop the question and I seriously dont mean to be elitist, but am I the only T21 Seer still? I only ask because the DPS potential of a AWC seer(only because I dont have stats on Hermes ship) can match T21 zerker setups(No joke).
Back to why I asked if there was any other T21 Seers yet was because if there isnt, it means you guys are still in Panthers and lolDS's complaining that you cant kill T21 ships.

Perhaps we wait until our Seer are up to date with gear until we start complaining, doubt admins will listen before than :P

-Bad at Games


I want a hermes ship before you get one :(

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