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Post Seers - Ignore Target Resists
As t21 ships have rolled out, I feel that seers have kind of fallen in the ranks.

Against other LF's, we still are a worthy opponent, but with the disgustingly high resistances most ships offer now, and not to mention several fantastic augmenters that further bolster said resistances, it's just not practical to give the t21 Seer any more +damage, or else it unbalances the game greatly.

So here's an idea! Allow us to ignore target resistances, and then nerf our +damage until it brings it back into 'acceptable' levels. This way, we can actually DPS a well geared Heph Machine SHM, put a noticable dent in Zerkers, and maybe even kill a brain dead Sniper or two who is fail enough to not be able to Sniper Spotter you after the first shot - All without adding immense amounts of +damage that makes us overpowered against all non t21 ships!

Of course this is as much a brainstorm as a suggestion, so to give some relevant information for non-seers. Average crit shot against a Zebucart (0% resistance) is 45-55k damage/4 seconds. Average shot against a well augged Heph Machine+ is 6-8k damage/4 seconds.

Let's of course remember, 4 seconds is around the MINIMUM recoil. Most seers won't be sitting there behind the target perfectly still as they'll be trying to kill him.

Thoughts? Ideas?


Last edited by Deathdisguise on Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:06 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
I like it, but it might break Seer against t21 ships.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:07 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Damn! Slipped in before I could correct some grammar I slipped up on!

For sure it would need tweaking to sit in right, but the idea of ignoring resistances will actually normalize damage, so that even though newer and greater t21 ships appear, their resistances to seers (and only seers) won't matter! Naturally you don't want a seer smiting a SHM for 55k a pop, that's just ridiculous, thus the nerf in our damage to compensate.


Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:10 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Deathdisguise wrote:
Damn! Slipped in before I could correct some grammar I slipped up on!

For sure it would need tweaking to sit in right, but the idea of ignoring resistances will actually normalize damage, so that even though newer and greater t21 ships appear, their resistances to seers (and only seers) won't matter! Naturally you don't want a seer smiting a SHM for 55k a pop, that's just ridiculous, thus the nerf in our damage to compensate.


My problem is that seers can get some pretty extreme damage already, and it would make t21 ships highly susceptible to getting stomped by t20 Seers.

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andezrhode wrote:
goett wrote:
All oly ships look way to geometrically conservative for my tastes.

thats because most graphic designers are squares :mrgreen:

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Fired bullets taste like candy.


Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:18 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Normalized = Highs would be reduced, and lows would be increased. =P


Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:20 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
I like the idea, but have it check to make sure the resist to whatever damage type you're using isn't so high you would do 0 damage first. I know it seems really obvious, just thought it was worth pointing out that being able to kill stuff with 100% resists, or irradiate stuff with 100% to rad, would be a bad thing. :P

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:42 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
yugioh124 wrote:
I like the idea, but have it check to make sure the resist to whatever damage type you're using isn't so high you would do 0 damage first. I know it seems really obvious, just thought it was worth pointing out that being able to kill stuff with 100% resists, or irradiate stuff with 100% to rad, would be a bad thing. :P
Oh! I totally didn't think of that! Killing Kraken before he could do anything would be kinda of goofy huh? =P

On another note, I have done some math to calculate the 'most extreme damage' an MF1 seer can pump into a single shot. Right now that stands at just under 150k energy damage (Primal V2 Rocket) to a 0% resist target. I would have calculated it for a possibly hypothetical MF3 Primal V2 Rocket Seer, but I don't know how the MF crit nerf works exactly for Seers!

Can anyone shed some light on this? The word on the street is that the second and third shots don't critical!


Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:51 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
I've always thought a Seer-version of Sniper Analysis would make sense, it charges from 0% to 100% in 3 minutes, and only charges while you are unseen to the targeted ship. (build-up pauses if they see you, and resets if you change target).

Bonus at 100% is like -20% damage resists on target, +10% critical hit, -10% range.


Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:01 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
How about a 20% chance of ignoring resists?
1% per level.

and about the irradiating... As long as you can't cap it, what's the problem?

About the crit, btw. Every bullet gets a chance of critting. so if you fire 2 bullets, sometimes 0 crit, sometimes 1, sometimes 2.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:05 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
JaceGannon wrote:
I've always thought a Seer-version of Sniper Analysis would make sense, it charges from 0% to 100% in 3 minutes, and only charges while you are unseen to the targeted ship. (build-up pauses if they see you, and resets if you change target).

Bonus at 100% is like -20% damage resists on target, +10% critical hit, -10% range.
An interesting concept! I would be interested to hear what other Seers thought of this? I personally am unsure about having to wait three minutes before engaging in battle!


basebot wrote:
How about a 20% chance of ignoring resists?
1% per level.

Hm, the issue with this is, with the required damage nerf (and trust me, even at 20% chance, it WILL be required) it would actually hurt Seers more than help, since there would be a constant damage nerf, for an unstatic chance of good damage!

However, we could consider it ignoring a % of resists so that tankier players still make a difference?

basebot wrote:
About the crit, btw. Every bullet gets a chance of critting. so if you fire 2 bullets, sometimes 0 crit, sometimes 1, sometimes 2.

Good to know! I was under the impression that the secondary/tertiary crits didn't get critical strength bonuses, or something that made it not worthwhile!

I notice a lot of people seem to be against ignoring 100% resistance! And after more thought, I do think it kind of makes sense to not have it this way! However, I also feel that 20% is far too low!

Remember, T21 Seers will have the same problems T20 seers have! You can't keep on adding +damage modifiers to balance them out with other T21 ships! (Not to mention, it would make us more useful in group runs OMGAH!?)


Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:18 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Why would damage need to be nerfed?
Maybe 10%...

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:33 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
I believe both churchy, klestiko and I suggested similar things long before T21 and their fabled resists. I think it should be a part of seer class, rather than just an add-on to compensate for their supposed disadvantage in PvP. I agree with Dia that it should be a 20% Change, on CRIT to ignore 50% of target's resistances.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:40 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
basebot wrote:
Why would damage need to be nerfed?
Maybe 10%...
Okay, so 20% chance of ignoring resists. [seer] gets lucky and bowls in a V2 Rocket at [target]. [target] takes 150k points of damage through his 85% Energy Resistance. You have now 1shot a Tank spec'd Berserker!

What I now have in mind (after revising my ideas from the feedback) is perhaps ignoring 60% of a target's resists when behind them, and a 30% reduction in damage?

(Written before the following!)

Mail wrote:
I believe both churchy, klestiko and I suggested similar things long before T21 and their fabled resists. I think it should be a part of seer class, rather than just an add-on to compensate for their supposed disadvantage in PvP. I agree with Dia that it should be a 20% Change, on CRIT to ignore 50% of target's resistances.
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While I'm starting to see a trend in people's desire for 20% chance, I have to point out the MASSIVE lower gamer-rage of having a more consistent, yet weaker effect!


Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:45 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
(if it can be programmed) Just the ship resist.

Augs/Zerker/Engi resist are added, and Zerkers now have an advantage.

(Fuckin' snipers don't.)

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:27 am
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Post Re: Seers - Ignore Target Resists
Make it so that Seer does not get to blast through resists or se, but give the Seer +damage the higher the target's resists are. This way they will be equally useful against high and low resist targets.

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