Star Sonata :: View topic - Sawtooths/SawX's

Aurora Ex Machina wrote:

Sawtooth are level 100, Sawtooth X, level 360.

Sawtooth may be balanced to around 180-200.

For the record: Sawtooth / X's have had the same gear since at least 2007. Your ancestors fought said AI with a lot less available items, drones, ships, augs or class skills than you: more than is offset by the new SP system.

/carebears

Cygnus wrote:

I'd throw my drones down and hide on a warp, or a planet.

Aurora Ex Machina wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

I'd throw my drones down and hide on a warp, or a planet.

This is indeed why, almost 4 years ago, Sawtooth / X's lost their ethereal lasers.

L2P.

Cygnus wrote:

Except now warps and planets don't provide the same protection as before

playerboy345 wrote:

Seriously AEM, you are acting like a retard..

Cygnus wrote:

Can't the stop turning laser just be changed to a SSS or something? So they fire their main laser and reduce turning constantly, and like once every 20 seconds they can fire a SSS that stops your turning entirely for a short period of time. That seems far more fair than the current method without removing the uniqueness of the AI entirely.

Author:	Asmodeaan [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
Aurora Ex Machina wrote: Sawtooth are level 100, Sawtooth X, level 360. Sawtooth may be balanced to around 180-200. For the record: Sawtooth / X's have had the same gear since at least 2007. Your ancestors fought said AI with a lot less available items, drones, ships, augs or class skills than you: more than is offset by the new SP system. /carebears /signed. listen to Aurora Ex Machina she knows best.

Author:	Bacchus [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
This problem seems to affect DMs. The ancestors, that being me, I have used drone swarms and they take down sawtooths pretty fast. Nowadays 4 drones just dont cut it.

Author:	Cygnus [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
I fought them personally back then So I know how they're really no different since then. Y'wanna know how I fought them back then? I'd throw my drones down and hide on a warp, or a planet. I would then procede to damage them until they ran away, and then hope that they wouldn't come back before I could get a few more levels. Alternatively, I could run away. VERY RARELY, I could kill them, but there was never a reason to actually hunt them, or do anything but run away if you saw them. I think I even made a thread about them back then.

Author:	Aurora Ex Machina [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
Cygnus wrote: I'd throw my drones down and hide on a warp, or a planet. This is indeed why, almost 4 years ago, Sawtooth / X's lost their ethereal lasers. L2P.

Author:	paxiprime [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
ok, seriously now that we have S as a break key this shouldnt be a problem for any class. engineer, you lay your drones press S and bam drone kills sawtooth. not that hard.

Star Sonata http://forum.starsonata.com/

Sawtooths/SawX's http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51420	Page 2 of 3

Author:	playerboy345 [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
It is for new players.

Author:	syberian [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
Aurora Ex Machina wrote: Sawtooth are level 100, Sawtooth X, level 360. Sawtooth may be balanced to around 180-200. For the record: Sawtooth / X's have had the same gear since at least 2007. Your ancestors fought said AI with a lot less available items, drones, ships, augs or class skills than you: more than is offset by the new SP system. /carebears There haven't been any new drones for years and not much new items for this lvl range. In fact people use the same lvling methods and weapons for years now so nothing really changed in this matter. ALSO back then you could have: 9 or even 12 drones deployed up to 18 slaves /would.put.something.vicious.here.but.cba

Author:	Cygnus [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
Aurora Ex Machina wrote: Cygnus wrote: I'd throw my drones down and hide on a warp, or a planet. This is indeed why, almost 4 years ago, Sawtooth / X's lost their ethereal lasers. L2P. Except now warps and planets don't provide the same protection as before Planets must be hidden behind, making you vulnerable to attacks from 2 or more of them(which is very common), on warps you have a larger area that you can be shot than before, allowing you to be pulled off by a tractor or knocked off by an explosion. Plus, it's not the damage that is the problem, it's the complete inability to do anything until the battle concludes. Normally as a droner you're dodging, taking cover, and swapping drones constantly; a single saw can make you sit and just be hit by incins, torps, or whatever else is being shot at you. And that's as a droner, that plays based on staying in one place; what about a zerker? They wont be able to turn to aim at their target(of course, they could just use 360 degree weapons, but they're one of the most boring weapon types in the game; are you really saying that practically in order to go into w2, you need to give up on using about 9/10ths of the weapons available to you? Because to effectively use 360 degree weapons, you've gotta aug for it), and they wont be able to mitigate ANY damage. Or what about FC's? Slaves are too stupid to stop, so a single saw can just sit behind one and chase it out; by the time you finish any other enemies, they're too far out to catch, and too late to save. And if the saw goes faster than you, then you're entirely screwed, because until you can get agro on your main ship, the process is going to just keep happening. And even worse, what if the saw can't break your slave? I've seen saws chase ships out dozens of k out of a gal, and really felt bad for whoever had to go save that stupid silly slave... It's not that there aren't ways to deal with it(there are ways to deal with anything), it's that it's not really fair to new players to expect them to have to deal with a harder challenge than reavers are at an equivalently higher level. They're overpowered. Can't the stop turning laser just be changed to a SSS or something? So they fire their main laser and reduce turning constantly, and like once every 20 seconds they can fire a SSS that stops your turning entirely for a short period of time. That seems far more fair than the current method without removing the uniqueness of the AI entirely.

Author:	playerboy345 [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
Seriously AEM, you are acting like a retard. Warps and other objects do not provide the same protection like they used to. This is a fact. Also, these AI are OP for low levels, ofcourse us experienced players can kill them easily but the new players are not able to do this, they'll just ragequit the game.

Author:	Cygnus [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
As of the last time I was on, warps are no longer a solid object; shots fired when passing over them have a good chance of hitting other objects that are also on top of them. This was also partially true in C1; non-eth lasers could occasionally hit enemies that were at zero distance even when on an object. However, the window is now a significant margin larger. But since you're already on it, this will hopefully become less relevent. Just remember that just like making a broken item expensive doesn't make it balanced, making an OP AI higher level doesn't make it any less OP, it just makes it OP at a higher level. I look forward to testing their new levels when I level my sixth character, and will give you more feedback then.

Author:	Max235 [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
Indeed. This is how I bulldoze through DF300 dgs. My PSS shots go through warps 75% of the time, and planets/suns 50%. JeffL kindly showed me how in a thread and video. So no, Warps don't provide as much and it's harder for new players to use them as obstacles. New droners cannot leave their drones either, as drones, while they have that special capacitor and resists, are still pretty weak when left alone. A single Saw or even two are not that much of a big deal. It's the fact they also tend to lie within Space Blue Beta and other AI's territory. You HAVE to be able to dodge them, or such AI will tear you and your drones a new one and you'll need to buy a full set again.

Author:	The Salty One [ Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
I like the full grem of a sawtooth. Back when I leveled my drone master I simply dodged round my drones, hid behind slaves (etc)... what I really hated were when the pretty boy/girl swarms showed up.

Author:	Xonok2 [ Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sawtooths/SawX's
What makes saws OP: 1.Other AI can do whatever they want. 2.At that level you do not have proper 360 tracking weapons. 3.360 weapons are just weaker than others for the sake of balance.(And at that level weapons are just about all already weak) 4.While using something like a mag4(not possible at that level), then it's still hard to hit them enough(tracking is comparatively great, but not enough. Especially since saws have low range). 5.Warps now provide 0 cover if there's a planet/sun around[. Especially usual in DGs. 6.Slaves are often helpless against them. So the SSS idea was quite good IMO. Especially because -100% of anything is extremely OP and does not balance out with levels(Opens you up to attacks from other AI that you could normally defeat, being attacked by a ragnarock is not as bad as a gamma). Cygnus wrote: Can't the stop turning laser just be changed to a SSS or something? So they fire their main laser and reduce turning constantly, and like once every 20 seconds they can fire a SSS that stops your turning entirely for a short period of time. That seems far more fair than the current method without removing the uniqueness of the AI entirely.

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