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Post Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
There's no need for an explanation. Everyone knows that its not worth setting up a Tech 20 ExE/CA base (for the most part) when you can just drop a tech 9 kit. That should be changed. Its a WAI (Working as Intended) feature that removes a huge chunk of opportunity costs from the decision making when you plan out your galaxy.

Here's the suggestion link to upvote! http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions/t ... _with_base

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Last edited by MasterTrader on Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:59 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
I made a whole post about this idea, including possible formulas to balance it with the current game state. But now I'm thinking people might be tempted to do this simply because industry bases are going to be stronger with the rebalance.

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Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
anilv wrote:
I made a whole post about this idea, including possible formulas to balance it with the current game state. But now I'm thinking people might be tempted to do this simply because industry bases are going to be stronger with the rebalance.


Mind linking it here?

And even though industry bases will be stronger, they still won't be as strong as StM bases. It doesn't make sense, thematically, for a Tech 3 industry base to give the same benefits that a Tech 20 base would give. It boggles the mind.

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Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
Damn this would really bottleneck a lot of things :shock:
I actually hope it wont happen :roll:

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Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:23 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
Found it! (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54381)

anilv wrote:
Five kits per character is fine for StM but not for ExE and CA. If higher tech bases had natural bonuses to extraction and colonies (not just suitability, also caps on quantity sold per tick), it could actually make sense to use fewer, high tech kits for those tasks and I might be convinced to go with this.

The easiest way I can see to implement this is to make base kit tech give a multiplier to the effectiveness of ExE and CA owning the kit. A typical maxed SM CA alt will be laying about 15 T3 kits, I suppose, so we would need a x3 CA bonus if using 5 T20 instead. Since it's much easier to develop and manage 5 colony planets than 15 (and these five planets would have almost guaranteed max suitability), this bonus could get scaled back to maybe x2.

ExE is a little trickier since (1) it's a big penalty to only be able to extract from five sources, and (2) extraction bonuses could cause a glut in tier 3 commodities. I currently use three endgame T16 extractor kits for metals and 5 T9 kits for oats. If I could replace those by 1 T20 for metals and 2 T20 for oats, I would be content with the change (leaving me 2 more ExE slots on that character). That means that T20 ExE kits would need to receive approximately x3 effective ExE. It may sound like a lot but in the end I'd have approximately the same quantity of resources coming in at the cost of several base slots I currently use to extract other valuable stuff.

So to a first approximation I'd propose
CA multiplier up to x2 for T20 and
ExE multiplier up to x3 for T20
both starting at x1 for T3 and proportional to station slots required.

An unintended consequence of this approach is that endgame players could actually viably share galaxies. That would allow teams to condense their territory and perhaps we could convince the admins to get rid of some of those useless connector galaxies!

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Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:29 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
Why not add in tiered advanced extractors for ExE (like one requiring 15 (TL 15), one requiring 30 (tL 20))? Then we can still work with the system we have but make higher tiered bases more attractive for ExEs.

As for CA's, how about cheaper/ alternative variants of the geo projects that people currently use to up suitability that have to stay equipped on the base?


Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:54 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
TheWozbo wrote:
Why not add in tiered advanced extractors for ExE (like one requiring 15 (TL 15), one requiring 30 (tL 20))? Then we can still work with the system we have but make higher tiered bases more attractive for ExEs.

As for CA's, how about cheaper/ alternative variants of the geo projects that people currently use to up suitability that have to stay equipped on the base?


There are already T15 and T16 extractors which people do use, but nothing past that. I have never laid an ExE base above T16.

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Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:23 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
Thanks for sharing Enk, math is solid (But when is math anything but solid when it comes to you, lmao).

Something needs to be done, it makes no sense to drop 15 Tech 3 bases and do better than someone who drops 5 Tech 20's...


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Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:42 am
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
Yea ive always thought it was so weird that i was better off using tech 3 kits then tech 20 kits for certain situations. I could just never think of a way for a balanced situation. Enk seems to have hit the nail on the head though.

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Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:39 am
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
anilv wrote:
TheWozbo wrote:
Why not add in tiered advanced extractors for ExE (like one requiring 15 (TL 15), one requiring 30 (tL 20))? Then we can still work with the system we have but make higher tiered bases more attractive for ExEs.

As for CA's, how about cheaper/ alternative variants of the geo projects that people currently use to up suitability that have to stay equipped on the base?


There are already T15 and T16 extractors which people do use, but nothing past that. I have never laid an ExE base above T16.



That's what I'm saying. Make some items that are ExE only and swing the slots/ extractors into its favor.


Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:01 am
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
That's a band aid approach...

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Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:12 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
I don't see anything wrong with current situation. Why fix something that works fine. I like flavour of having small amount of gigantic kits in my gals and bigger amount of tiny t3-9 kits.

I enjoy sim city aspect of the game. I like the feeling of building a space empire. I turn empty and unhabitable planets into flourishing planets with billions of habitants. I turn numerous solar systems filled with planets into gigantic entity with countless industrial ships trading goods between planets. I wish more players could be able to experience this part of SS.

I feel that supporting high tech ExE/CA kits would take immersion from building. I wouldn't feel so good about building many less bases per universe. My infrastructure wouldn't seem as large as feels now. Single developed account has around 100 base slots. If only t20 kits are built, that is only 11 bases. You don't really get empire feel with only 11 bases.

Supporting high tech kits makes even less sense with recent base rebalance. Now ExE/CA bases can actually help at defending. Therearealready reasons to use higher tech base kits. T6 kits can equip microfab and galactic training module. So using t6 colony kits instead of t3 requires less slave power. T12 kits can equip better extensors. T14 kit can equip gremming ambro laser. T16 kit can equip more extractors. High tech kits can equip dampeners. Also, t1-6 base gear wasn't rebalanced so it's much weaker than t9+ base gear.

This change would actually help big builders like me make more money. I'm not limited by base slots. I'm limited by available time/effort. I would make more profit with same effort.


Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:49 am
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
anilv wrote:
TheWozbo wrote:
Why not add in tiered advanced extractors for ExE (like one requiring 15 (TL 15), one requiring 30 (tL 20))? Then we can still work with the system we have but make higher tiered bases more attractive for ExEs.

As for CA's, how about cheaper/ alternative variants of the geo projects that people currently use to up suitability that have to stay equipped on the base?


There are already T15 and T16 extractors which people do use, but nothing past that. I have never laid an ExE base above T16.

I suspect that the higher tech extractors would need to be readily available all year long. The prospect of collecting enough undead miners or whatever to justifiy a T16 EE base is a bit far out for most of us.

Simply offering T16 and T20 extractors in the AI bases would be enough to make T20 EE bases worthwhile, especially when combined with the newly upgraded defensive capabilities. There's nothing to say that you couldn't continue to equip your undead miners and such alongside of common T16 extractors.

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Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:35 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
I also like the idea of base kits which give bonuses to things like extraction and suitability. Maybe even base kits with speed / capacity / -weight auras for the MFMs. Higher tech bases could give bigger bonuses, which gives us our incentive for using higher tech bases. This idea has been around for years, and devs always seem to like it, but they never seem to implement it.

EDIT: We already have auras to increase speed and capacity. Maybe MFM bases could have an aura which makes Trade Slaves microwarp the last few hundred distance to their destinations?

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Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:37 pm
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Post Re: Trade skill bonuses should scale with base tech level.
If they implemented something like this then they would probably give you what you have now for t20 kit and scale down from that for lower tech kits. Just going on past experience of rebalances.


Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:32 pm
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