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Attackers in BvB
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61967		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  KonanCruss [ Tue May 24, 2016 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Attackers in BvB
Can we bring tractoring bases as the attacker back plz?
Right now it is close to impossible to win a genuine BvB as attacker. Also from what I heard you can't RTS as attacker (I'm not sure about this).

It's already annoying to defend an outpost & to get 10k out as attacker in a well defended galaxy and it's even harder to kill galaxies if you can't tractor the drones from the defender, especially with the recent buffs they've recieved.

With how it stands now, attackers should never win a BvB. Only if the defenders don't know what they have to do, to win the BvB. Or when the attackers uses 2x the amount of Adamantium kits with an extra 10 Bana kits. The defender can just tractor all your kits 1 by 1 into range and kill them; and you basicly can do close to nothing about it.

If you want it so newbie players don't get shit on by attackers, then search for something else to protect them. It's only 1 person that BvB's newbie teams, and said person even offers help to newbie teams on how to base, before attacking them. The end game has no wars going on just because as attacker you have 1 major disadvantadge and that is, you can't tractor anything but the enemies. With the Graviton Blockers you can't tractor the enemy players.
Tractoring is a valid strategy in BvB that has been deleted, plz bring it back. If RTS really doesn't work, bring it also back.

Carebearing for newbie players is cool, but these measures don't help them at all. The no tractoring won't make so end game player all of a sudden won't BvB a newbie team, and even then; they will probably just PvB it.
Author:  ELITE [ Tue May 24, 2016 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
Newbies don't bvb with 20 ada kits. And newbies don't take 20 ada kits to kill.

The half ass implementation of the "no tractor" rule is pretty fucking stupid but I'm not really sure how to fix it.

It allows some stupid galaxy configurations to defend against almost infinite dps, and there's not much the attacker can do since they can't move the unattached kits.

WTB testing and actual new methods of BvB before implementing sweeping changes to the live server.
Author:  sabre198 [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
So are you saying an attacker can't Bvb a gal with all attached kits in also?
Author:  ShawnMcCall [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
KonanCruss wrote:
The defender can just tractor all your kits 1 by 1 into range and kill them; and you basicly can do close to nothing about it.


So this is basically the linch pin of your argument, but... if you just bring your own tractor ship and pull back against them... problem solved. So the one by one thing isn't really a factor unless they have like 10 tractor ships, in which case the no tractoring defending kits is moot anyway since you're never going to beat 10 tractor ships


Lemon does have a point though in that drones are kind of broken in that they can effectively tank what would kill a base for some reason. I have no idea whether this is due to absurd resists, or what, but I do agree that if defending kits have tractoring protection then either permanent drones need to be tractorable by attackers, or drones need their resists nerfed so they are not laughing off pulses.
Author:  ELITE [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
I mean, there's nothing stopping me from putting 20 ada kits on a sun and laughing at anyone who bvb's it and tries to pulse my kits.
Author:  vampire2948 [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Lemon does have a point though in that drones are kind of broken in that they can effectively tank what would kill a base for some reason. I have no idea whether this is due to absurd resists, or what, but I do agree that if defending kits have tractoring protection then either permanent drones need to be tractorable by attackers, or drones need their resists nerfed so they are not laughing off pulses.


When Danger and I watched -13-'s recent BvB vs. SRX, in which they had a wall of Andaman Drones protecting their ada kits, we thought it was mainly due to how difficult it is to make the superlaser shoot a single drone you want to kill -- Basically impossible.

The drones take more damage than the bases.

Paladin,
Author:  ShawnMcCall [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
ELITE wrote:
I mean, there's nothing stopping me from putting 20 ada kits on a sun and laughing at anyone who bvb's it and tries to pulse my kits.


Well I mean if you drop 20 ada kits you can laugh at whoever tries to BvB it regardless... :P
Author:  ShawnMcCall [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
vampire2948 wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Lemon does have a point though in that drones are kind of broken in that they can effectively tank what would kill a base for some reason. I have no idea whether this is due to absurd resists, or what, but I do agree that if defending kits have tractoring protection then either permanent drones need to be tractorable by attackers, or drones need their resists nerfed so they are not laughing off pulses.


When Danger and I watched -13-'s recent BvB vs. SRX, in which they had a wall of Andaman Drones protecting their ada kits, we thought it was mainly due to how difficult it is to make the superlaser shoot a single drone you want to kill -- Basically impossible.

The drones take more damage than the bases.

Paladin,


Also, very much this. Super Lasers for some reason completely ignore RTS commands. And I don't mean they switch targets after a few shots, I mean they never even start to give a shit about who you want them to shoot when you attempt to RTS.
Author:  vampire2948 [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
One solution that 13 was using, then stopped for some reason, was using the Vazaha Station Shotguns.

Was a little hilarious watching the drones run away behind the ada kits.

Paladin,
Author:  carterstrain [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
Traders came in and nuked 15 ada kits effortlessly. With 30 ada kits.
Author:  ELITE [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
Fuck off Churchill.

RTS has never worked for us, we just control bases by limiting their range and what they can actually shoot. Or just tractoring shit into the stream of death outgoing from our kits.

But that's impossible now, so we're reliant on RTS (hahahaha).
Author:  carterstrain [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
Hmm. So the forum deleted my quote. That was intended for ShawnMcCall. 30 ada kits should still beat 20 defending anni z ada kits from what 13 insinuated to me, that massed pulse guns beat smaller quantity, better quality bases.

Anyways, RTS for bases have never worked and I wouldn't be surprised if the dev who originally added it is no longer with us (thus, never going to be fixed!)
Author:  MasterTrader [ Tue May 24, 2016 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
I'm honestly in favor of getting rid of this stupid "tractor things into range" mechanic that we have and just allowing bases to be moved with "Base micro warp drives" or whatever. Or base engines.

Really short range micro warp drives that can be upgraded and shit.

While I don't know much about BvB, I've watched a lot of it and the current mechanic of not being able to move the defending teams assets actually seems perfectly reasonable to me. I will admit that being able to move the aggressive teams assets may be too far, since it not only gives the defending team XYZ stat advantage but also the tactical advantage of playing with potential targets for bases.
Author:  ELITE [ Tue May 24, 2016 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
MasterTrader wrote:
I'm honestly in favor of getting rid of this stupid "tractor things into range" mechanic that we have and just allowing bases to be moved with "Base micro warp drives" or whatever. Or base engines.

Really short range micro warp drives that can be upgraded and shit.

While I don't know much about BvB, I've watched a lot of it and the current mechanic of not being able to move the defending teams assets actually seems perfectly reasonable to me. I will admit that being able to move the aggressive teams assets may be too far, since it not only gives the defending team XYZ stat advantage but also the tactical advantage of playing with potential targets for bases.


Yea that's by far my least favorite part of a BvB, the 2-3 hour tractor session just to get in range lol.

Microwarpers or base engines or something, anything is better than the current system.
Author:  jack the ripper [ Wed May 25, 2016 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attackers in BvB
ShawnMcCall wrote:
ELITE wrote:
I mean, there's nothing stopping me from putting 20 ada kits on a sun and laughing at anyone who bvb's it and tries to pulse my kits.


Well I mean if you drop 20 ada kits you can laugh at whoever tries to BvB it regardless... :P



20 ada kits can be easily killed if they have one simple error in them all
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