Funny. People who actually have the classes are are telling you to leave the augs alone and people who dont even own that type of char yourself included are arguing otherwise

The main purpose of choosing one class over another is to use the class advantages. Like, I get to MF as a Zerk and do a ton of close range damage.

If my class augs were all about increasing range and increasing my sustain, it makes it look like you're trying to give me sniper bonuses instead of zerk bonuses. In that case I'll go sniper and find class augs that give me multifiring and negative range.

I once more reiterate my request that the early level BZerker augs swap Hostility for Electrical Tempering. I do not need swarms of ships at level 200, i need my weapons to not drain my banks.

I also reiterate my suggestion that "Fighter Operations Augs" become a thing. Cause that is an entire section of FC's that is practically useless, as far as anyone has told me.

If you don't like the tentative changes (of which I do, and I would most definitely use these augs if/when I play again), then don't use the augs. There are other augs out there that boost sustain.

As for Fighter Operations, Hober and I are very against that. Well, I am very against that. Hober seems to be just against it. Why? I'll use Drone Operations as a parallel. Drone Ops is critical for Engineers to have good drones. Thus, the best Engineers are built on the theory crafting table and those with money to burn end up the top Engineers. Do you think it's fair that the best Engineers are literally the ones with the most money? And that's why Fighter Ops suck ass as a concept. The better Fighter Ops augs will be money gated, and thus the best FCs in regards to fighters, will be the ones with the most money to spend.

And that is off topic.

The purpose of this thread was, the last time i checked, to suggest changes to the Augs. Which is what i am doing. I am aware of the other augs that boost sustain, I am contending that sustain is class critical to Zerkers in ways it is not to, say, snipers.



Good, becouse that is what i am basing this on.



Source?



Non Sequiter. First, IF those with money to burn are ending up the top engineers, it implies there is a shortage of basic engineering materials. However, you have not shown why those with the most money would end up the top engineers. Lavrite and Banu Qo Akk'oj are perfectly available. If drop rates need to be increased, increase, them. The fact that drop rates on certain augs are too low does not prove that the concept of a "Fighter Ops" stat is flawed.



Again, non sequiter. All you have shown is that drop rates are to low. You have not shown that the concept of "Fighter Operations" as a stat is unbalancing in any way. If this is who i think this is, you yourself have repeatedly told me fighters are junk. That is 1/3 of all FC skills reduced to garbage by the lack of a relevant aug boost. Explain please why 1/3 of all FC skills should be garbage because you are worried about money gates?



Again, this is a drops problem, not a concept problem.



It is entirely on topic. 1/3 of all FC skills are trash because the item they give a bonus to is junk. Increasing the bonus would give more options and allow more versatility, i do not see how that is a bad idea.

I think a fighter rework (which Morat was working on... But he's been Mia for months now ) would be better than adding an Aug Stat for fighters.

I'd prefer controllers to augs - Unless the augs gave decent resist or elec too I'd avoid them.

Fighter rework would be nice though.

Precisely. Fighter Ops, as Drone Ops, is gated by having money. The best Engineer is the one with a couple trillion stashed away to buy up a 2 Banu 1 UAoE setup if their team doesn't have the ability to do it for them. This setup will almost always be better than the 3 Gen Mast the lower ranking Engineers fly with. It's always been like this. Previously, the better Engineers had money to replace the drones the lower ranking ones could not afford to, so you rarely saw AIDs or ACDs on anything but the best. Hence, Titan Drone spam.

Here is what I said earlier in the topic about this.



My end point is that a low level Berserker is more likely to constantly die if they are focusing their augs into Electric Tempering than they are if they get damage. Berserker has no regeneration, if you can't kill the target before it kills you you're done. Large electric tempering bonuses do not help you kill the target before it kills you, it lets you continue to shoot for long periods of time. This will kill you if you're trying to fight anything remotely tough.

And, I don't know if you know this or not, but your class skills increase the value of your augmenters. If your class skills give a bonus to something, and you have an augmenter that gives those bonuses as well, they multiply with your augmenters. Berserker gets to double dip on Damage, Energy, Shield, Hostility, Weapon Hold and Resistance. It doesn't double dip with Electric Tempering. Speed Demon does, though. Replacing Hostility with Electric Tempering also screws over Berserker's that are playing with other people, and doesn't fit with the Class Augmenters. They all give you more of what you signed up for when you picked the class, you didn't sign up for Electric Tempering.

This is why I tried my best to put the stats that I did on the lower level augmenters (And tried to mirror those stats into the higher level augmenters), although some augmenters may not have exactly the same stats that their class due to trying to fill in holes (Like Gunner getting Inertial Dampening... seeing as its in a Capital Ship, from a class standpoint it makes sense to be more resistant to knockbacks and explosions).

If you want to talk to me about adding more augmenter choices for Electric Tempering, I'm more than willing to look into that.

EDIT: Updated my post per enkelin's reply.

I've updated the spreadsheet and it should be much easier to read now. I've also updated the stats as well to account for feedback and changes. The stats in my previous posts are not up to date.

FWIW: RoF does not lower your DPE. It keeps it the same.

The part about double-dipping is false. Since most stats scale exponentially between augs and class skills the specific stats don't matter much. What matters is, in the end, your overall DPS, DPE and range. Having stats on 3 levels(gear, ship bonuses, class bonuses) is a fundamental part of the balance of this game precisely because they can be balanced separately.
That is, a class that deals high damage without augs deals high damage with augs too, unless they're gutted in a stupid way(multifiring doesn't scale like the rest!?) or unless the low availability of some stat hinders them(seer and critting at low levels).

Just run the numbers. Try 2 base setups:
A weapon and a RoF bonus.
A weapon and an equivalent damage bonus.
Then compare the DPS of both setups on 2 classes - someone with a damage bonus and someone with an equal RoF bonus. The DPS does not change, although DPE does.
Thus, the specific stat a class gives does not increase the value of the same stat on augs.

Next week on One Piece - How having bonuses of the same kind stack linearly eventually reduces all playstyles into a few cookie-cutter versions because combining different bonuses gives an exponential(better) scaling.

There is no synergy in there, which is what the post I responded to implied.
Right now afaik the formula is basestat*augmenters*skills. No matter how high the basestat or augmenter bonus is, a skill is still equally strong. It stills adds the same percentage to your power overall.

Just try the test I outlined previously. Whether you add 60% RoF or damage to a sniper, it increases the overall DPS exactly the same. If there was any double-dipping it would be better to stack damage rather than RoF, but it isn't.
To clarify what I said previously - Having a specific damage stat from your class does not make that specific damage stat better than others on augs. The exceptions to this are crit and multifiring, which in different ways fail to scale like the rest does.