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Main: The Shaft of Punishment
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
I agree, nerf sniper tracking bullshit.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:16 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
"An SD doesn't have the option to face the opponent at all times, a berserker would be unable to get all the lasers to track enough to hit the same point, etc..."


Hober, if you would be so kind, the stats for Leopard scratch please! I hAve shown you videos of me putting three of those on a target with few problems, what is their tracking? Single digets?

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Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:25 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
lrellok wrote:
"An SD doesn't have the option to face the opponent at all times, a berserker would be unable to get all the lasers to track enough to hit the same point, etc..."


Hober, if you would be so kind, the stats for Leopard scratch please! I hAve shown you videos of me putting three of those on a target with few problems, what is their tracking? Single digets?


You're pretty dumb sometimes... how does any of your point contradict that the nerf he wants would affect every class except the one he is trying to hit? Or do you just try to disagree with me based on principle?

Edited: because my original post was kind of mean...


Last edited by ShawnMcCall on Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:17 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Why does the OP want to turn the sapper into a t21 omega beam?


Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:47 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Valkyrie300 wrote:
Why does the OP want to turn the sapper into a t21 omega beam?


He doesn't like that it can be used from such a high range to build analysis or kill players, then if the sapper doesn't kill the player they can just fly in with a higher DPS weapon and kill them with sapper charged analysis. His complaint is valid but the tracking nerf doesn't accomplish his goal as a sniper with 0 tracking bonuses (including class skills, Augs, and mods) still has a firing arc 697 distance wide from 10k away. When you factor in class skills, tracking mods, Aug bonuses, or ship bonuses that arc will quickly grow to the point that a sniper will see no functional difference.

Edit; just with class skills that arc goes to 1116 distance wide. If they also get grooved bore, that arc is nearly 1300 wide. All before Augs, mods, hull bonuses, etc...

Edit again; if they use a Hantr Psu in their setup, that sniper now has a firing arc 2k wide.

And another edit; any t20 or higher scoped mod on their ship is going to up their arc by about another 160 distance for each mod. Hopefully everyone understands now why a tracking nerf makes no sense if the weapon is hit-scan and being used from 10k or more distance away.

This is all assuming that all tracking bonuses stack additively onto the base tracking. If there is any multiplicative stacking at all anywhere in the equation that arc could easily be double that size or even larger. And this is all assuming 4° (or 2° on each side because SS is fucking weird) of tracking for the weapon. If you make it 1 ° in either direction, then assuming purely additive stacking, it's still easy as fuck to get that arc to be 1500 wide.


Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:53 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Sypom3 wrote:
Imo only a tracking of 2 degrees on each side would justify it being a 4d 1k range instant hit weapon


You do realize that would effectively be a nerf for everyone except sniper, right? a very small degree of tracking (2 degrees on each side for 4 degrees total arc) is still a pretty huge lateral limit if you're firing from 10k range. However, that weapon now becomes useless for every class except sniper, who still keeps 100% of the advantage of the weapon.



This.

Not to sound arrogant or cheesy but if I'm not honest about what changes will/will not cripple me as a Sniper then this game will never ever move forward, but this proposed nerf would not affect me in the slightest because of the following:

1. I have augs that give tracking
2. My class gives a lot of tracking on its own
3. Both of my Ares Sappers have Scoped on them

Now even if you were to take away points 2 and 3, I will still have at least 90° tracking. It will however, hurt the Speed Demons and Seers who already have issues with tracking as it is.

As for the whole charging analysis argument well I am sorry but we have had this debate consistently ever since Analysis was added. Originally you just had to sit still and do nothing for 10 minutes while having your enemy targeted, now you have to equip an item that drops all your resistances down by 25% and you actually have to do something to charge Analysis. The damage output of Ares Sappers from 100% Analysis is not that much higher than it is at 0%.

What's wrong with being able to charge Analysis from a safe distance exactly? It takes five minutes of consistent shooting to actually get it to 100% and that's assuming a stealthy, high radar AI doesn't sneak up on you while you're charging and disrupt it for you. If this is just a complaint about a Sniper charging analysis on a player from 7k out then firstly, what on the hell was the victim doing for 5 solid minutes while he/she is being shot? And second, why not just warp out like any sane, logical thinking person would? It takes about 30 seconds to a minute for the Sniper to fly out to their "safe range" whatever that happens to be and another 5 minutes to charge the Analysis. Just warp out and make them waste their time. Or better yet, get on a Speed Demon or a Seer and kill the Sniper. If this were still 2012 and the Poseidon Wave(+) was still the end game Stealth Sniper ship then it would be a different story, but today (unless the Seer cocks up) it will not even be a contest for Seers.

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Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:14 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Then remove the tracking altogther


Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:07 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Sypom3 wrote:
Then remove the tracking altogther

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:53 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Sypom3 wrote:
Then remove the tracking altogther


Why?

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Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:33 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Sypom3 wrote:
Then remove the tracking altogther



That would make them fully useless...


Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:46 pm
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Sypom3 wrote:
Then remove the tracking altogther



That would make them fully useless...


Maybe that's his grand plan so that snipers/seers/SDs can't kill him in pvp. :lol:

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Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
No, the weapon would be pretty usefull, id still use it
I know removing the tracking sounds silly, but there is no counterplay from being attacked from 16k away, if you try to get away from it, the sniper just pwi in closer.
Removing the tracking sounds like the only way to make it so the sniper has to stay active to hit you, becouse atm, youre either stealthy or dead


Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:11 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Sypom3 wrote:
No, the weapon would be pretty usefull, id still use it
I know removing the tracking sounds silly, but there is no counterplay from being attacked from 16k away, if you try to get away from it, the sniper just pwi in closer.
Removing the tracking sounds like the only way to make it so the sniper has to stay active to hit you, becouse atm, youre either stealthy or dead


Firstly, 16k is a stupid exaggeration and you know it. Secondly & I have already stated this, the "counter" for a player who is being attacked by a Sniper with an Ares Sapper from 5k away or further is to just warp out (unless you're Speed Demon or Seer, in which case you KILL it). "Using a PWI to get closer" is just going to kill the Sniper's energy and will only hurt the Sniper in the long run. By warping out, you're basically forcing the Sniper to either follow and repeat the frustrating and time consuming process or just give up. Most will give up because it's such a cheap and easily flawed strategy to kill someone with. You'd be much better off with getting the job done using Fire Makers or KMWs. Unless you're in a Tech 20 ship, you're not going to die to Ares Sappers before you warp out, or even transwarp for that matter. It takes ages for the Sniper to fly out to a certain distance and then start shooting, by that time the player will be closer to the warp than they were originally, and they can make an escape. Even the heaviest Capital Ships today are fast enough to make it out of a galaxy in a couple of seconds and the Sniper then has to waste another few minutes of his/her time to chase after the player and then repeat the process, only they'll continue to get the same result. As I said most Snipers give up, although most Snipers would actually use a weapon that could actually get the job done faster rather than wasting time flying out & then having to chase after their opponent.

Alternatively, they could do what Heavyg33 does which is to warp out and then sit right by the warp with an Anti Stealth laser and murder the Sniper the moment they warp in. It really isn't difficult and players are not that stupid to sit still & twiddle their thumbs while they're being attacked from 7k out.

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Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:38 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
No, 16k ares sappers is very possible, and it is very murderous in pvb cenarios.
There is no reason to warp out otherwise you dont know whats happening inside your gal


Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:49 am
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Post Re: Ares Sappers
Sypom3 wrote:
No, 16k ares sappers is very possible, and it is very murderous in pvb cenarios.
There is no reason to warp out otherwise you dont know whats happening inside your gal


You weren't basing your points around PvB & simply nerfing the tracking on Ares Sappers would change absolutely nothing in PvB. But since you want to try and bend things towards PvB then 10k+ range has been achieved on KMWs before and their 360° tracking is far more destructive against bases than Ares Sappers are. In which case, you should really be making the case for range cap on bases to be removed. Personally I have never understood why it was added in the first place.

If a player dies to Ares Sappers in their own galaxy, instead of demanding a pointless nerf for them on the forums, maybe they should fix the HPS on their kits.

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Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:34 am
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