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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
The Salty One wrote:
This is simply not true. I've done it multiple times against galaxies with many, many defence kits. This doesn't even make sense because you should have to war someone to bvb them, so then surely it's only fair that they get to attack back.


DS is exaggerating a little in saying that it's impossible, but see my most recent post in this thread for a more detailed discussion of the issue. He and I have done enough BvB for a lifetime and there have been plenty of engagements that could not have been accomplished without this mechanic.

It is indeed only fair that they attack back. No one is disputing that it's an undesirable mechanic. The reason we aren't changing it (yet) is that doing so would make many BvBs impossible to initiate, swinging the balance much too far in favor of the defenders. It is a pragmatic reason, not a principled one.

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Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:00 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
To explain: to use a sing brake while there's hostile bases in the galaxy you're in means you have to get the brake jump off before the bases oneshot you. This can only be done by beating the server's response time (press the brake button before the server realises you're alive due to latency (ping)). I live in Europe and the delay is simply too much for me to effectively get this done, meaning US players get a large advantage on this front. That's why Enk has had to log on my accout several times during BvB just so that we could get into position.

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Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:22 am
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
this seems like something that would turn away new players more than the few grandfathered bindo spam items kicking round the 5 legacy players storages

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Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:44 am
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
The Super Capital Ship concept...people are worried that it would completely invalidate siege kits and bvb in the normal sense so much you'd rather have 5 ships than 5 kits.

I'd rather have several ways to get into a galaxy:

1. Use the Super Caps to facetank your way in and a shelter for close range kit set up.

2. Use a Hyper Warper to jump to Small Warp Beacon(s) deployed in enemy galaxies, or at random angle 15k out from the center of the galaxy.

3. Probably some Wormhole-like mechanic to sneak your way in at cost of perilous transdimensional AI scaled to DF.


Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:20 am
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
sabre198 wrote:
this seems like something that would turn away new players more than the few grandfathered bindo spam items kicking round the 5 legacy players storages


Maybe, maybe not. New players tend not to get involved in serious BvB too soon, mainly because they don't even build good enough bases to require it. While we do eventually want to improve the pipeline to Wild Space, we believe it's more crucial to address itemization problems first.

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Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:13 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
anilv wrote:
The reason we aren't changing it (yet) is that doing so would make many BvBs impossible to initiate, swinging the balance much too far in favor of the defenders. It is a pragmatic reason, not a principled one.


EDIT: Deleted my mistaken correction.

I'm also not convinced that there arent other ways to exploit, like what I originally thought occurred below, or that it couldnt still happen if you mess with this enough. Obviously there is a reason we keep getting BvB'd by 4 teamed + 1 unteamed kit (that never gets reteamed during the whole fight) versus 5 teamed kits.

------------Original message---------------

Understand, but here is the consequence of this. We just got BvB'd by 6 kits, one over the 5 kit limit, and the other team had no base amps.

They lay kits, abandon/transfer one to a spoof team of their alts, then that team declares war on us.... We won, but that's not that point.

Was it suppose to be this easy to circumvent the BvB limit? If so what's stopping people from doing this to BvB with 7, 8, 10, 15 kits with no base amps but multiple alts?


Last edited by dreadlordnaf on Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:44 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
dreadlordnaf wrote:
anilv wrote:
The reason we aren't changing it (yet) is that doing so would make many BvBs impossible to initiate, swinging the balance much too far in favor of the defenders. It is a pragmatic reason, not a principled one.


Understand, but here is the consequence of this. We just got BvB'd by 6 kits, one over the 5 kit limit, and the other team had no base amps.

They lay kits, abandon/transfer one to a spoof team of their alts, then that team declares war on us.... We won, but that's not that point.

Was it suppose to be this easy to circumvent the BvB limit? If so what's stopping people from doing this to BvB with 7, 8, 10, 15 kits with no base amps but multiple alts?


That is a major exploit and I would like to have you send me more details so that we may investigate whether a punishment is in order.

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Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:40 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
I jumped the gun my mistake. You know how the adrenaline is pumping after BvB's...

Please see my corrected post above. Which still indicates some odd things going on.

anilv wrote:
dreadlordnaf wrote:
anilv wrote:
The reason we aren't changing it (yet) is that doing so would make many BvBs impossible to initiate, swinging the balance much too far in favor of the defenders. It is a pragmatic reason, not a principled one.


Understand, but here is the consequence of this. We just got BvB'd by 6 kits, one over the 5 kit limit, and the other team had no base amps.

They lay kits, abandon/transfer one to a spoof team of their alts, then that team declares war on us.... We won, but that's not that point.

Was it suppose to be this easy to circumvent the BvB limit? If so what's stopping people from doing this to BvB with 7, 8, 10, 15 kits with no base amps but multiple alts?


That is a major exploit and I would like to have you send me more details so that we may investigate whether a punishment is in order.


Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:42 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
FYI it should not be possible to have an unteamed BvB kit. It may just be necessary for us to revise to code to reflect this. The only kind of valid BvB kit should be ones that belong to a warring and adjacent-owning team.

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Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:44 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
Please send me a forum PM detailing to the best of your knowledge all instances of BvB you have personally witnessed that have in any way involved unteamed BvB kits. Be advised that if your reports are incomplete or inaccurate, it may slow down the dev team's response time in correcting any unintended mechanics.

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Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:47 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
I have already contacted devs, but wanted to clarify this thread since a few people have been asking me on it.

I thought we were recently BvB'd with 6 kits, which would be exploit bug getting around the 5 kit limit without using a base amp. I later saw only 5 kits after the battle so thought I was mistaken, blaming it on me getting it wrong during the heat of the battle.

To clarify I now see I was originally correct, Ada Souls did exploit and use 6 kits on us getting around the 5 kit limit, the other station was simply tractored away and I didnt see it. Pic is attached. The kit we were able to cap with our flag on it was their abandoned one that was unteamed.

I will continue to investigate the rest of this in private conversation with devs, but wanted folks to know to watch for this exploit if its used against you.


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Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:56 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
I feel it's important to state publicly that the dev team does not claim that an exploit occurred. There is not enough incontrovertible evidence that all 6 kits were active at the same time. We will continue to do some testing to establish whether an exploit is possible, and close any loopholes should they be discovered.

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Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:51 pm
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
gone is the 1000 line spreadsheet in is the 1000 line cheat book

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Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:46 am
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Post Re: fix teamleaving BvB exploits or just remove all BvB limi
Max235 wrote:
The Super Capital Ship concept...people are worried that it would completely invalidate siege kits and bvb in the normal sense so much you'd rather have 5 ships than 5 kits.

I'd rather have several ways to get into a galaxy:

1. Use the Super Caps to facetank your way in and a shelter for close range kit set up.

2. Use a Hyper Warper to jump to Small Warp Beacon(s) deployed in enemy galaxies, or at random angle 15k out from the center of the galaxy.

3. Probably some Wormhole-like mechanic to sneak your way in at cost of perilous transdimensional AI scaled to DF.


I love the supercapital ship concept. I would like to see other ways of fighting your way into enemy territory rather than dropping down kits.

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Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:06 am
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