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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
cej1120con wrote:
anilv wrote:
I don't expect them to become inexplicably fixated on the idea of using ada kits and SoLs when they have likely never even heard of these things.


No, but having their entire galaxy capped & demoed such that they have all their time and work totally erased by someone bigger than them doesn't sound fair


I understand where you are coming from, but I guess the dev team doesn't currently see things that way. Our goal is to keep reducing the time and emotional investment required to get started with bases. We are coming at it from that end rather than making bases safer.

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Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:48 am
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
If there was a market for such kits, augs, and semi-useful drones, I'd sell you that stuff. Need to find more things to blow our t0 commods on.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:17 am
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
This is not my personal rant, everything that happened below was my own short coming.

After having my production base capped by -13- and the rest of my gal killed I have to agree with base capping being a massive hindrance on newer players/teams. Older teams/players have access to ada dampners and higher tier base kits. As a team of two who has yet again had to restart the game with nothing due to people either sabotaging kits, or people flying around in T22 ships having nothing better to do. It is extremely painful to have to fend off players while you try and build up kits. I finally managed to get an ada kit layed and 80% augged before I got off the other night. Between that and the T16+ kits and 5 anni defenders, my gal was walked all over. Then I have to deal with the fact my production base is now gone and owned by -13-. Still there, but it's not abandoned so I can't reclaim it to access the BPs installed to yet again try and build stronger gear.

Expecting players to be able to go and lay 10 lac kits just to keep your gal alive from T22 players is ridiculous. That is a lot of base slots just to secure one foot hold, with current SM20 commods. Fairly difficult for new players to get SM 20 so it's decently safe to say they have SM16, so they have to have 3 chars with SM16 to lay those 10 kits. Which lets be honest anda kits will get laughed at and easily destroyed by anyone with a group of T22 ships such as -13-. As far as joining a team, EF doesn't really recruit that much from what I know. Traders and SRX are constantly in a pissing contest with one another for what ever reason, not exactly a friendly and safe thing for new players. Other then that there isn't much out there for decent sized teams to take in and teach newer people.

Again, this is not my personal rant, but more of my perspective as someone recently fucked by someone with a full T22 squad poking at little people/teams because of "little defenses".
Which is only fixed by building stronger gear (ada gear, T20, can't build in EF layer) but get walked on by others.

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JeffL wrote:
Um, kindly please disregard what Julian said.

Lolwut? wrote:
assasinat3r wrote:
My mother is a space rat, what now?

And that makes you... what, exactly? Canadian?


Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:56 am
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
A T16 kit takes 7 slots (once you notice what that number on the kit is for). It is roughly 85% the strength of a T20 kit of same tier. T18 is 92% or so iirc. However the actual cost is about 10-40% of that T20 kit (includes all the way up to ada T16). On both resources and credits.

There are T12 Jungle Base augs, T12 Aveksakan Base augs, T16 Aveksakan Base augs, and you can still use Argonaut-Andaman augs.

Annihilator Industrial Drones and Annihilator Y/Z gear take a massive amount of raw resources to build. Like ridiculous. I can't be bothered with Y gear outside my main defense kits.

But Andaman Indy Drones and Y/Z gear. 10 Andaman Z geared bases cost in total the same amount of resources as 1 Annihilator Z geared base, while being 85% the strength. So resource wise, smaller teams can get a huge bang for their buck. The drones are in a similar vein.

I'd also like to keep pointing out that these are one or two man teams trying to contend (willingly, or not) with teams ten times bigger than they are. The easiest way to defend against someone like 13 is to again leverage weight of numbers. Even if the gal had ada on the level of Razzy's galaxy, 13 isn't going to try taking a gal with 10 actual people building in it. That's...4-5 characters worth of defenses backed up by 5-6 characters worth of EXE kits (which amounts to something like a total of 7-8 total defense characters?). Even all Laconia kits, that is a LOT of firepower to mess with.
Drone slots are limited to 70, so that's also 50/70 slots filled with drones.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:18 am
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
Would like to point out, that Y gear takes almost 2 weeks to make, and the Z? Nearly an entire month... Even with a Roverts you are looking at 3 weeks to go from X to Z.

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JeffL wrote:
Um, kindly please disregard what Julian said.

Lolwut? wrote:
assasinat3r wrote:
My mother is a space rat, what now?

And that makes you... what, exactly? Canadian?


Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:19 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
I will actually argue that a group of t16 kits can take out a squad of ill prepared or organized t22 players (13's squad) as they fended off an attack from them recently on Singles. Especially if you are auging your exe kits.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:17 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
SkatePunk wrote:
I finally managed to get an ada kit layed and 80% augged before I got off the other night.


I don't mean to nitpick, but why did you leave your gal with a single incompletely augged ada kit? Several fully augged T16 lac kits would have been better at that point, and cheaper too.

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Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:42 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
anilv wrote:
SkatePunk wrote:
I finally managed to get an ada kit layed and 80% augged before I got off the other night.


I don't mean to nitpick, but why did you leave your gal with a single incompletely augged ada kit? Several fully augged T16 lac kits would have been better at that point, and cheaper too.


I would hazard a guess that he didn't fully understand the base reworks that you did, enk, and went with the time old tradition of ada kits or go home Pancakes tactic, which a few other people tried and failed miserably because they did not have the economic power to shit out 100 ada kits at random like EF can.

The conclusion I drew was that anything less than Dem T20/Ada T20/Bana Kits upgraded to T20, were thought of as complete trash and there should be NO reason you should use them.

Which, obviously isn't true now. It costs maybe 20b in total resources spent/potential resources used to build 10 Lac T20s, gear and aug them, and deploy 4 characters worth of drones (all of which have the equivalent stats of STM drones, at DD20). But a single Ada T20 will run that entire price. And you will still need to leverage 5 Ada T20s + PVB support to tackle that galaxy with even a single client defender online in the gal.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:14 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
Max235 wrote:
anilv wrote:
SkatePunk wrote:
I finally managed to get an ada kit layed and 80% augged before I got off the other night.


I don't mean to nitpick, but why did you leave your gal with a single incompletely augged ada kit? Several fully augged T16 lac kits would have been better at that point, and cheaper too.


I would hazard a guess that he didn't fully understand the base reworks that you did, enk, and went with the time old tradition of ada kits or go home Pancakes tactic, which a few other people tried and failed miserably because they did not have the economic power to shit out 100 ada kits at random like EF can.

The conclusion I drew was that anything less than Dem T20/Ada T20/Bana Kits upgraded to T20, were thought of as complete trash and there should be NO reason you should use them.

Which, obviously isn't true now. It costs maybe 20b in total resources spent/potential resources used to build 10 Lac T20s, gear and aug them, and deploy 4 characters worth of drones (all of which have the equivalent stats of STM drones, at DD20). But a single Ada T20 will run that entire price. And you will still need to leverage 5 Ada T20s + PVB support to tackle that galaxy with even a single client defender online in the gal.

<<Nirvana atm, forgot I logged into the old man's acc to check the sub>>
Essentially this, I was unaware that non STM kits were actually decent now. When I left last a single char would walk over a planet of 4 T16 kits augged or now. And as I said, am still in the process of trying to replace stuff that I have lost twice now. Which takes time especially when you are short augs.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
well, have another go and when you lose your shirt the third time pop back here and we will have a good old knee-slap as we tell you next thing you missed out

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Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:44 am
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
Max235 wrote:
Singles have shown that a small team if they put their minds to it can bvb despite being relatively low level and having low end bases. 10 people will look at 1 person in a semi-valuable galaxy and think "This can be OUR galaxy, not yours."


Keep in mind that Singles is near entirely composed of people who have literally thousands of hours in the game, multiple end game T22 accounts probably, and who understand nearly every single gameplay mechanic. Using them as an example is silly.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
I'd also just like to add that I've been noticing this worrying trend since, well, Singles started that more than a few of the devs seem to be thinking that everything below T20 is fine and working as intended going by their experiences leveling up characters on the team. You guys have found a bunch of bugs and design mistakes where things require skills people at those levels likely won't have, and are moving to fix them. This is a good thing, but lately some of you seem to be thinking that the average new group of players would be like Singles.

It won't be, not even close. As I said in the post before this, you guys have a lot of experience with the game and mechanics and items and where to go to level up optimally and what gear to get for a class and how to build bases and what augmenters to use and so on.

Church, you talk about Singles success in BVB stuff, but I can virtually guarantee that if it had been a team of actual new players, there would have been no success.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:23 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
Don't worry, some of us are still very much concerned with how difficult the early game is. We're not entirely happy with where things are from a new player's perspective.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
anilv wrote:
You don't need to build base gear for them. My estimate for the strength of the gal assumes X gear. As far as the augmenters go, they are instant builds. You can stockpile Promethium without a base and the raw materials they require are negligible. You could have all necessary base augs built in about 10 minutes without breaking a sweat.


This is beyond hilarious. In one thread you are arguing that new players do not need access to prom to advance, in the very next thread you are arguing how easy it is to get prom. Make up your mind enk.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:44 pm
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Post Re: Remove Base Capping: It hurts newer players/teams the mo
lrellok wrote:
anilv wrote:
You don't need to build base gear for them. My estimate for the strength of the gal assumes X gear. As far as the augmenters go, they are instant builds. You can stockpile Promethium without a base and the raw materials they require are negligible. You could have all necessary base augs built in about 10 minutes without breaking a sweat.


This is beyond hilarious. In one thread you are arguing that new players do not need access to prom to advance, in the very next thread you are arguing how easy it is to get prom. Make up your mind enk.


You can stockpile Promethium WITHOUT A BASE simply by buying prom from AI bases and freezing it. You don't have to have a single mining bot.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:01 pm
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