Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Officer
Main: bencatdog
Level: 3781

Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:50 pm
Posts: 7
Post Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
As I'm sure some of you are aware, I enjoy playing Star Sonata in the role of a stealth sniper. This is a role that I find fun, rewarding, and generally a joy to play. But I am also find this way of playing the game limiting. Obviously a single character can't / should be able to do all the content in the game alone. I have no qualms whatsoever when it comes to such things. However, I do think that a major limiting factor to the enjoyment of playing in such a way is limited heavily by the amount of gear that I can carry and or equip at any given time.

Limiting the carrying capacity of players makes sense. We all know how ridiculous it would be if everyone could carry whatever they wanted. The balance would be really hard to maintain. Not that it is anyway. But that is not the issue here. I have taken a look at all of the stealth sniper ships (heavy fighters generally used for this purpose) from tech 19 and above. This list consists of the Snowflake, Equanimizer, Equanimizer+, Jujuso'rka, Absconditus, Absentis, Poseidon Wave, Poseidon Wave+, Isvas'ayu, and the Twisted Vanguard. I have taken the time to get the data together in a nice graphical form in the word document attached.

As you can see, by looking at my handy little chart, hull space increased with tech levels for the most part up until the end of t21. After that it hit a plateau. This is the problem that I think needs addressed.

On the second page you can see my proposed solution. Some of the outliers such as the Absconditus have been changed to fall in line more considering where they stack up in power. The later ships follow a linear curve for hull space that i think reflects gear size and quantity to a suitable level. Since no ships have ever been over 800 hull with the exception of the Poseidon Wave+ this should make them a bit better at what they do without directly increasing damage or resistance to it. Utility is the name of the game in SS currently and these ships just need a bit more.

If you have read this far I appreciate it. This is just one of the issues that I decided that I wanted to spend the time to prepare a post for. Other issues that I think need addressed sooner rather than later are: the current loot system and not being able to scoop large items, and the current state of visibility and reflectivity which is supposed to be covered sometime soon if I have heard correctly.

Lastly this is all my opinion but i do think it would be a good change for the game. Thanks again for reading and I look forward to reading what you guys have to say about this.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm
Profile
User avatar
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Operator
Main: Maxathron
Level: 1703

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 5695
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
I agree that some HF kinda need a hullspace update, but not the way you went. For starters, there are Sniper HF, Combat HF, and Berserker HF. There are not many Combat HF, and they represent a sort of not very stealthy, but not super bulky middle ground between what is ideal for a sniper and what is ideal for a zerk.

Snowflake 600 (Sniper)
Marshal 750 (Zerk)
Equanimizer 700 (Combat)
Absconditus 650 (Sniper)
Jujuso'rka 800 (Sniper)
Rosmarinus 900 (1000) (Zerk)
Reaver 600 (650) (SD)
Absentis 800 (Sniper)
Zebra 900 (Combat)
PWave 900 (Combat)
Pwave+ 1000 (Combat)
Prawn 1000 (Combat)
Pax Venaticora 800 (Combat)
Dequad 1000 (Sniper)
Ayudhin 900 (Combat)
Isvasa 900 (Sniper)
Kalthi Warrior 1000 (Combat)
Armored Warrior 1300 (Combat)
Wrathful Warrior 1100 (Zerk)


Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:19 pm
Profile
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Officer
Main: bencatdog
Level: 3781

Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:50 pm
Posts: 7
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
Quote:
I agree that some HF kinda need a hullspace update, but not the way you went.


You do make a good point about other heavy fighters needing a buff. As it stands they rely on others to scoop loot for them and they are really limited on what they can pack onto their ship. To some extent this is fine, but on the other hand the ability to do these things well enough to get by is somewhat missing.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:26 pm
Profile
over 9000!
User avatar
Team: Traders
Rank: Director
Main: enkelin
Level: 5509

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 11005
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
We can't really give anything more hull space unless we take something away from it, whether it be resistances, augmods, or inbuilt elec. Take you pick and we'll see if it's a desirable change.

_________________
(DefQon1) use a Rhino reconstruotereatarerer
-
(Pasta) I need to figure out how to get rid of this UrQa Suqqa Ukuk
(Bluenoser) Put your finger in your mouth and gag reflex should do the rest


Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:31 pm
Profile
User avatar
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Operator
Main: Maxathron
Level: 1703

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 5695
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
I'll be willing to part with resists on sniper HF.


Last edited by Max235 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:35 pm
Profile
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Officer
Main: bencatdog
Level: 3781

Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:50 pm
Posts: 7
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
Ok, well if that is the case I would say that for at least the higher end ships (T22) they could probably part with resists. As a stealth character i always know something is going wrong if I am being shot. Lower resists would be a big negative for runs though, but even then i think the trade-off for more "utility" and loot scoopage would be worth it.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:39 pm
Profile
User avatar
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Operator
Main: Maxathron
Level: 1703

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 5695
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
Yeah, if resists are big deal on runs, then the player should:

->Not build full glass cannon

->Use a tankier ship (which almost always trade stealth for tank)

->Bring more HPS, at possible cost of the potential DPS.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:45 pm
Profile
Team: Hiigaphiix
Rank:
Main: Schuldiner
Level: 3065

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:05 am
Posts: 334
Location: Chile
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
Max235 wrote:
I'll be willing to part with resists on sniper HF.

Stfu, Stealth snipers are already quite squishy compared to other classes, even the design of the Vanguard compared to the Isvasa is the sacrifice of resist in exchange of Damage, the resistance ship have already from 5% to 40% resist to all except to laser and energy that are 50-60% iirc.

As (banned :lol: ) regular stealth sniper player, to solve my hull problems in solo playing(which is the main topic) i used the aura stealth slaves as cargo ships, ex: Vicar, Super-phunka or SSS with shit-ton of trans gear, btw i never tested them with the hoberian augmenters(i built the slaves before the introduction of that content, but i guess Smuggling augmenters are you best friends)


Last edited by Dispatched on Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:01 pm
Profile
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Officer
Main: bencatdog
Level: 3781

Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:50 pm
Posts: 7
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
Quote:
Stfu, Stealth snipers are already quite squishy compared to other classes, even the design of the Vanguard compared to the Isvasa is the sacrifice of resist in exchange of Damage, the resistance ship have already from 5% to 40% resist to all except to laser and energy that are 50-60% iirc.


As this is an open forum and specifically my post I think that I am completely at liberty to say whatever I want with no regard for what you think. However that is rather rude of me and in the post I actually said that I wanted your feedback on my suggestion not to be berated for my opinion.

Continuing on, scoop slaves are not a bad idea. I use one myself. However they are not perfect and cause many issues that I do not plan on going into detail on.

Also the resistance ship had nothing to do with my original point of stealth snipers. It is not even a ship i listed as a contender. It is used for high vis applications. This might be irrelevant if i misunderstood what you were saying just let me know.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:08 pm
Profile
Team: Hiigaphiix
Rank:
Main: Schuldiner
Level: 3065

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:05 am
Posts: 334
Location: Chile
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
benxx18 wrote:
Quote:
Stfu, Stealth snipers are already quite squishy compared to other classes, even the design of the Vanguard compared to the Isvasa is the sacrifice of resist in exchange of Damage, the resistance ship have already from 5% to 40% resist to all except to laser and energy that are 50-60% iirc.


As this is an open forum and specifically my post I think that I am completely at liberty to say whatever I want with no regard for what you think. However that is rather rude of me and in the post I actually said that I wanted your feedback on my suggestion not to be berated for my opinion.

Continuing on, scoop slaves are not a bad idea. I use one myself. However they are not perfect and cause many issues that I do not plan on going into detail on.

Yeah i know i got no point in the resistance, is just that i really dislike churchill autistic personality.

About the slaves, nothing is perfect, but this doesn't mean that stealth slaves are rudimentary, they basically add 800-1200 extra hull space which was stupidly useful in my dgs runs, and they are better option than making a whole change that is about taking resist, inbuilt stats or other stat from ships in exchange of hull. (I can hear Tom autistic screeching when his vanguard gets a damage/resist penalty :lol: )

As a sniper player personal experience, the hull was never a issue.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:22 pm
Profile
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Officer
Main: bencatdog
Level: 3781

Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:50 pm
Posts: 7
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
An item that lets you decide between more hull and lower resist and one that does the opposite would be a really cool thing.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:26 pm
Profile
Team: Hiigaphiix
Rank:
Main: Schuldiner
Level: 3065

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:05 am
Posts: 334
Location: Chile
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
benxx18 wrote:
An item that lets you decide between more hull and lower resist and one that does the opposite would be a really cool thing.

This, problem solved, everyone happy.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:31 pm
Profile
User avatar
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Operator
Main: Maxathron
Level: 1703

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 5695
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
You must make more items as techs go up. The obvious, easiest, and best long term solution is just to scale hull with tech. Higher tech items tend to go up in hull anyways.

As a stealth sniper, my two primary advantages were:

1. Range.

2. Stealth.

Even with my reaug to a "non stealth" setup, my range is so great there are only a small handful of AI that I can't do, and they all are equipped with mega lasers. Even then, I can come back with a real long range weapon and trash them.


Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:31 pm
Profile
Content Dev
User avatar
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Operator
Main: Hober Mallow
Level: 3877

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm
Posts: 3120
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
Higher tech heavy fighters had their speed increased instead of their hullspace increased, over lower tech heavy fighters. If you really want to deal with hullspace issues, you want to trade speed for it. This is true for Capital Ships as well, most of the lower tech ships aren't very fast. As soon as you get past Tech 20 the speed balloons, this is where a decent chunk of the AllowedPower has gone. Give up some speed and you'll get a decent amount of hullspace in return.

TBH I don't understand why the ships would be made faster, when higher tech gear doesn't make you slower... it's just bigger.

_________________
Image


Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:02 am
Profile
User avatar
Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Operator
Main: Maxathron
Level: 1703

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 5695
Post Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
Ugh, I'm not sure why it's speed. Because basically what happened was:

->Light Fighters are bloody fast and are almost exclusively used by the two recon classes, both of which use speed augs.

->Support Freighters start off with solid speed and balloon that with various random speed bonuses on their drone and healing augs. They can actually get to 200-250 speed in some cases, while retaining range, firepower (HPS), relative durability, and tonnnnns of hull.

->Capital Ships not part of the Dreadnought family tend to have fairly high base speed, speed bonus in their class skills (Fleet Focus), and a decent portion of their augs include speed bonuses. So they too can get 150+ speed on a regular basis. Only FC was recently nerfed to not have speed from their augs, but they have enough potential augs that boost speed to be rather speedy...when you compare them to Sniper and Zerk.

->Snipers have range and stealth usually, which honestly isn't a huge deal when the entire bloody class is designed around being at ZERO speed. I'm sure a lot of stealth snipers will take the speed nerf if you gave them 200-300 base hull. They don't go fast to begin with, they get maximum benefits at 0 speed, and we have some bloody long range warp devices to use.

->Berserkers are pretty much in the shit due to their low base speed ships, heavy gear (being somewhat fixed when engines get buffed), and a speed PENALTY in their class skills. They get some fancy super item, but it's a temporary bonus to speed. Ungodly Lust-type tractors are a bad solution due to how bloody expensive and cancerous Tractoring skill is. And unlike the other "close" range class, Speed Demon, they don't get any tracking bonuses to help deal with their lack of overall mobility. There are only three T20+ HF that naturally outpace my Vazi, even after losing the speed on Art of Commanding augs. They are the Undead Baby Narwhal, the Kalthi Warrior, and the Kalthi Armored Warrior. And this is completely ignoring Zerk's speed penalty. Oh, and the FC uses a Vaidaya Krmikosa; if it didn't, only that Narwhal ship would naturally outpace it. I'd go a full 2 speed faster than the Warrior ships.


Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:43 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.