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Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63275
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Author:  Tomzta09 [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

I did float the idea of splitting Heavy Fighter up into two separate types of ship, similar to the Industrial / Support Freighter to solve this issue with the divide between Sniper and Zerk style ships so you could create hull extensions, augmenters and even have class stats targeting both ships. On the downside, that is extremely complicated.


MasterTrader wrote:
Higher tech heavy fighters had their speed increased instead of their hullspace increased, over lower tech heavy fighters. If you really want to deal with hullspace issues, you want to trade speed for it.



That isn't necessary. The Poseidon Wave+ has 840 hull space, 6 weapon slots and 95 speed. The standard Poseidon Wave has 800 Hull Space, 90 speed and still has 6 weapon slots (let's not even include the amazing resists of both Poseidon Waves), while the Vanguard and the Isvasa have 90 speed, 800 hull and 4 weapon slots. Both are already at a disadvantage to the Poseidon Wave+ (with the exception of being one tech level higher) The Twisted Vanguard or the Isvasa should be on par, if not a minor upgrade from the Poseidon Wave+. I fail to see why the Vanguard or the Isvas'ayu cannot have an increase to hull considering they are already worse in terms of resists and worse in terms of weapon slots when compared to the Poseidon Waves and worse speed when compared to the Poseidon Wave+.


Alternatively & I think Seers and Speed Demons may like this idea: all hull expanders should be reduced to 1 size and changed from increasing your hull by a solid value to a percentage value instead. Now going through every single hull extension in the game and rebalancing them so they don't give an absurd amount of hull is a pretty big job, but it's just an idea.

Author:  anilv [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

It doesn't make sense to me why we would want to split HF into two categories. Freighters were split into two categories to accommodate the non-combat role of Industrial Freighters, not to serve the needs of two different combat classes.

Author:  Max235 [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

anilv wrote:
It doesn't make sense to me why we would want to split HF into two categories. Freighters were split into two categories to accommodate the non-combat role of Industrial Freighters, not to serve the needs of two different combat classes.


Pax Stratos is not really a FC ship.

Pax Heliosoleta is not really a Gunner ship.

Two different categories already.

Author:  anilv [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

Max235 wrote:
anilv wrote:
It doesn't make sense to me why we would want to split HF into two categories. Freighters were split into two categories to accommodate the non-combat role of Industrial Freighters, not to serve the needs of two different combat classes.


Pax Stratos is not really a FC ship.

Pax Heliosoleta is not really a Gunner ship.

Two different categories already.


I was responding to Daedalus. There's no justification to create a whole new official Heavy Fighter subtype.

Author:  benxx18 [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

I will say that speed is crucial when fighting certain ai so I know that I would not be happy if that were to be reduced. Especially with how hilarious the aggro code is with speed. Gear has gotten bigger but that's why I was only asking for 50-60 hullspace in my initial post.

Author:  MasterTrader [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

You're gonna have to give something up to get something in this situation. In regards to Hull Expanders, I've been pushing for us to make Hull Expanders much more impactful following adjustments to Transcendental mods (With the obvious downside being that they would be heavier). We'll see how that goes.

Generally though, hullspace concerns are a part of the game and have been a part of the game for a long time. Being able to fit almost everything you want wasn't intended, you're supposed to feel claustrophobic. Be that as it may, we're still going to be addressing the issue with scooping loot. I don't know when the code for that will be available for testing, but as soon as it is it will be put on the test server so that people don't need to save cargo space for scooping loot.

Author:  benxx18 [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

Well as a possible solution the mining resist of both t22 stealth HFs could be reduced to a more reasonable level.

Author:  Tomzta09 [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

MasterTrader wrote:
You're gonna have to give something up to get something in this situation. In regards to Hull Expanders, I've been pushing for us to make Hull Expanders much more impactful following adjustments to Transcendental mods (With the obvious downside being that they would be heavier). We'll see how that goes.

Generally though, hullspace concerns are a part of the game and have been a part of the game for a long time. Being able to fit almost everything you want wasn't intended, you're supposed to feel claustrophobic. Be that as it may, we're still going to be addressing the issue with scooping loot. I don't know when the code for that will be available for testing, but as soon as it is it will be put on the test server so that people don't need to save cargo space for scooping loot.


I already feel claustrophobic after the absurd change that was snuck in during the uni before last, where you removed the bonus Combat classes got from equipping hull space. I have Pocket Universe 22 and I immediately went from 1900 hull to 1600.

MasterTrader wrote:
You're gonna have to give something up to get something in this situation.


Good response so far, but please address the following as there is virtually no reason why the hull space cannot be increased by a solid 10 or 20.

Tomzta09 wrote:
MasterTrader wrote:
Higher tech heavy fighters had their speed increased instead of their hullspace increased, over lower tech heavy fighters. If you really want to deal with hullspace issues, you want to trade speed for it.



That isn't necessary. The Poseidon Wave+ has 840 hull space, 6 weapon slots and 95 speed. The standard Poseidon Wave has 800 Hull Space, 90 speed and still has 6 weapon slots (let's not even include the amazing resists of both Poseidon Waves), while the Vanguard and the Isvasa have 90 speed, 800 hull and 4 weapon slots. Both are already at a disadvantage to the Poseidon Wave+ (with the exception of being one tech level higher) The Twisted Vanguard or the Isvasa should be on par, if not a minor upgrade from the Poseidon Wave+. I fail to see why the Vanguard or the Isvas'ayu cannot have an increase to hull considering they are already worse in terms of resists and worse in terms of weapon slots when compared to the Poseidon Waves and worse speed when compared to the Poseidon Wave+.


Alternatively & I think Seers and Speed Demons may like this idea: all hull expanders should be reduced to 1 size and changed from increasing your hull by a solid value to a percentage value instead. Now going through every single hull extension in the game and rebalancing them so they don't give an absurd amount of hull is a pretty big job, but it's just an idea.

Author:  sabre198 [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

they never say that when they nerf something (we're going to have to give you something to take this away)

Author:  Dispatched [ Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stealth Heavy Fighter Hull Space Issues

sabre198 wrote:
they never say that when they nerf something (we're going to have to give you something to take this away)

:lol: Hypocrisy at finest.

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