Here is and idea maxa, why don't you try reading the posts I have made and responding to things I am saying, instead of spinning afiction out of the clear blue sky.

The average common player doesn't need to be funding entire UZ ships right out of the gate as a p2p. The average person doesn't hammer away at one task for hours on end until they die of boredom.

The average team is a trusting environment where people work together for a common goal, which is usually the act of involving themselves in the territory control of Wild Space. Teammates don't need to fork over their entire savings to make this work.

You have been given recommendations on how to have income in this game, both as an individual player and as a team. Sure some areas could be improved, but for the most part you have shot down every suggestion everyone else here have made and complained about being crowded out from where you currently base yourself.

As far as anyone here can see, the solution is very simple. Don't rely on one single source for income. Kick anyone who cannot follow through on your team goals and policies. Go to Wild Space and establish a galaxy or three. Don't overextend. If you have to pay off attackers, do so; it is much cheaper to pay off an attacker than it is to rebuild constantly.


For all the other people here, Rendghast has explained that he uses only one source of income (Sub-Shield Buffers) for the reason *everyone else* does it. His team is awash with squabbling single players that don't cooperate and or listen to the *councilors/directors*. DSF's previous experiences with Wild Space were to emulate Strawberry Pancakes (@Enkelin). DSF previously did not have the ability to fight someone like 13, yet at the same time refused to pay 13 to go away, and frequently mocked and antagonized 13. Rendghast's mode of construction is to build every single item *himself* in a micromanage method that makes even OCD people cringe.

Just a side note: I don't think 20-30 hours per week is a realistic playing schedule for someone who wishes to build a new team up to be competitive in Wild Space. The first thing I tell anyone who aspires to do this is that building a team costs much more than you think it will. I don't just mean in terms of virtual goods; time is one of the most important investment resources to make a new team work.

Maybe if a group of close friends all were willing to put in 20-30 hours of play time, they could jointly get a team off the ground. But a single person with that time commitment will likely not be able to make it happen.

A common rule in trade type scenarios is whatever you think it'll cost at maximum, or how long it'll take at longest... Add 50% onto it.

Which is why we have been having this conversation for seven pages now, and will continue until you start listening. Maybe I am going at this from the wrong angle.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/4/29/11539 ... tial-facts

The average gamer is 35 years old, probobly works a full time job, and plays 6.5 hours A WEEK!

What does SS2 offer that person that they will pay you $20 a month for enk? That's right, nothing. Assuming normal distribution 80% of the people who will show up here will never be wild space competitive. This is something I have told you repeatedly, suggested ideas to adress repeatedly, and been brushed off repeatedly. There is a reason umhari keeps showing up, he know this too. You are giving the finger to 80% of your customers and you don't even see it.



This is again what I have been saying from the begining, going to WS costs a lot more then you think it does, so much so that it is now extremly unlikely that multiple teams will be able to get off earthforce layer at the same time. Particularly when it is flooded by dozens of people who can't and never will get off EF layer.

Why do you keep saying $20/month when it's $10/month?

The average gamer who arrives in SS will probably find a team that's already in Wild Space and tech up with them. Why do you assume they would immediately attempt to start their own team from scratch? That's never the easiest way to do things. I started playing this game in 2005 and never in my 12 years of SS have I ever seriously considered creating a new team from absolute scratch. It would be a huge undertaking and there have always been better options.

The way he's talking you'd think he was buying Girders/Chatbots/Fusion Cells for considerably above market prices and then cracking them open for raw materials to get to his price figures.

I plan on moving that mission to a Blue gal probably next uni or the one after that.

Well enk,I will hand you this, after a week of arguing we have still not reached the point where I can quote my own answers at you. Congtars, that's really rare for me.

Let us make some assumptions. 1) 6000 people addeed star sonata to their steam wishlist. 2) half of them will either not show up or quite in the first week. 3) there are 5-7 teams recruiting right now. 4) they have at most 150 slots free per team.

So we will have 3000 players and 1000 team slots, at most. That's 2000 people without a team. So unless you are flatly stating you are willing to let 2000 customers walk, there is a problem, it needs to get adressed.
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Ty so much sunny. Remember, its not the deltas themselves, its that researcher in the lead up mission. Unless the deltas got moved off EF too.

If 2000 new players sub this game I will personally create a new team and make sure they all get off to a good start. That would be a absolute grand slam of a Steam release for us.

As it stands, this thread reads a lot more like "Rendghast can't play the game the way he wants" and less like "Rendghast is concerned about what will happen if there are suddenly a ton more players."

I'm sure SunDog60 would allow for a Star Revolution Y and Sar Revolution Z. That way we can surround Traders on all sides and welcome their Panthers into the loving arms of 20 Ada T20 kit galaxies!

The last time i checked teams start at 100 players, and need rather a large amount of XP to increase.



If that is the conclusion you want to see, that is the conclusion you will see. But i have Literally tested every idea you handed me, and found most of them to be sorely lacking. Which is exactly what someone would do if they where concerned that a ton of players would hamper the game.

Please tell me you are at least going to to release steam immediately PRIOR to a uni reset so you can increase the system count without looking like it blindsided you?

Even if 2000 players joined during Steam, there is still room. You specifically won't like it because DSF would be squashed into a corner by new and old teams, but there will be room. You'll just have to fight other teams to make that room.

There are ~300 galaxies and the average fully locked down galaxy has 2-3 accounts in it, or about 10 building characters. 300 X 10 = 3000 individual building characters. There are maybe 500 p2p accounts, so an extra 2000 players can be swallowed up fairly easily. New teams are either going to have to get used to crappy resources as they hide in crappy galaxies, or fight to secure better resources. With *plenty* of competition from new and old teams, this would actually be exciting for once.

I'm with enkelin on this one. This is more like Rendghast can't play the game the way he wants and doesn't want to change, rather than Rendghast is genuinely concerned with what would happen if you dumped 2000 players into SS.

OK< i am gonna address this because what you just said is so jaw dropping stupid it is not even funny.

1) 300 Galaxies x 2 accounts each is 600 total players that could be accommodated in wild space. That is less then 1/3 of what i would consider a jaw dropping failure of a steam release. And yeah, if you had 6000 people RSVP an event and only 2000 show up, that is jaw dropping failure. In any case, assuming we already have 200 to 300 players in wild space, less then a half of that would be able to find systems and build. Any serious competitive player would quit in a month looking at that situation, just like those three guys who joined Heavy's team did when they realized the old guard would squish them. YOu have to expand the play area if you want the number of participants to expand maxa, that is why EVERY OTHER GAME introduces new areas as it grows, or instances everything so it scales on its own.

2) However, NONE OF THAT is relevant to the discussion, because the discussion is about earthforce layer. WHile your 300-500 players are cramming themselves into WS like sardines, 1500-1800 players are swarming EF. I KNOW we do not have build able systems for them all, and i am pretty certain we do not have more then a couple hundred DG in total. The game was never designed to accommodate that many people, and will have to increase the number of systems and DG to handle it.

This is exactly the attitude i saw in a dozen Ragnarok servers over WOE. "We want intence fighting, we want competition, shrink the play area, shrink it shrink it!" And within a matter of weeks the number of teams showing up to WOE dropped correspondingly. No body quit, they just stopped showing up to PvP events. Because the rest of the game was 20 times the size of the PvP area.

But that is not the case here is it maxa? The PvP area IS the game, for all practical purposes. You cannot get past tech 19 without going to wild space (yeah, your gonna buy a 50 billion credit ship without IC or colonies, your funny). If you make it impossible for more then 300 people to go to WS, then you are going to have a 300 person steam release and both i and uhmari will be laughing our way out the door to whatever game he makes. It will be 100% your failure, for no looking past your own petty concerns to ask what is best for the GAME.

WHICH we have already seen here! WHen the WS shrinkage was proposed, we had 6 decently sized PvP teams. Traders, RE, RF, EMinance, S&P, and SRX. Now we have 3. WHich is exactly what i warned you about at that time, if you shrink the playable area, the number of playes will naturally shrink accordingly. All you are proving right now is i that i know what i am talking about and you do not want to admit that.

If i had my preference, EF layers would be double the size of all other layers combined, with a proportional increase in the size of things like MIra and Jungle. But instead I ask for simple things like a small expansion of buildable space and apparently the dev team cannot even handle that. I am honestly worried you are so concerned about the size of your teams that you cannot see how this will cripple what could have been a 10k person steam release...which frankly is what you would expect of ANY OTHER MMO!