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Team: Deep Space Federation
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
anilv wrote:
You lay some bases and transfer them to the players. It takes a few minutes of their time. If they won't even pull that much for the team, you truly should boot them.


And they get cut to ribbons inside of a week becouse you have no mining weapons, no augs, and are using laconia kits with boop all for resistances.

Enk, stop dancing around the issue. In order to go to wild space, you need a full solo prom belt for finances, if not two. Which is never going to happen if you have one player siege gringing every belt. Laco kits are garbage and will not survive, and the longer it takes you to realize this, the worse the player situation is going to get.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:38 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Yipper and I have four galaxies between us. The one lone promethium belt we have between our four galaxies is used solely to build stuff with, not fund IC production to finance our operations. Yipper does colonies, and have something like 20 colonies between him. They should be maturing relatively soon. All he's doing is shipping Baobabs, Silicon, Metals, Nuclear Waste, and Space Oats out to his colony bases to be converted into stuff he can sell, or sold directly to the colonies. He's spent something like 30-40b credits on terraforming, sure, but he financed that through DGing. When those colonies are done, he will be making 8b credits per day.

Me, I deal with Industrial Commodities. I do Paxian Figurines, Steel Girders, Sentient Chatbots, Fine Space Whiskey, and Sub-Shield Reactors, with a small number of T1+ IC. I'm making 15-20b credits per day. I do have to take time out to go to various AI bases to sell my IC, though. Yipper's colonies are afk money. The bulk of my money is generated through Enukes and Baobabs. I have three Enuke planets to pull from.


Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:47 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
lrellok wrote:
ShawnMcCall wrote:
Oh cool, another thread where Rendghast asks for more shit for free because bad at game.

Also, Demented Sheets don't exist. You're revealing how much you know nothing about this game, Rend. Also also, why would you buy the dem... DGs exist.


Awsome, another person who does not know that Dementium BP is tech 20 and thus cannot be built on Earthforce layer..... GOod to have so much support here.



Yep, because Dementium doesn't drop in DGs or from roamers as the built commodity... Oh wait it totally does... in fact to get a Dem BP you need Dementium, which would imply that you can get Dem pretty fucking easily without a BP and half a shred of ability to play the game at a competent level... which shit, I guess that means you can't get it...


Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
I'd like to point out that Singles has a prom belt, and I have consistently yelled at NCCIntrepid weekly about it being useless and draining our credits. I can't be bothered to sell the sub-shield buffers we could make using it. Instead, we have 2 enuke moons and that supplies us what we need to mass-produce lac sheets. I went inactive for like a week on Singles, but when I was still around we were making probably 10 lac sheets a day (I'd build em in batches of 20, and constantly pause them when enukes run out so more workforce for the station suites), sometimes I'd build in a batch of 100, along with 1000 titanium sheets to drain resources like microchips.

Basically, find an enuke moon or two moons in a small area, and you should be able to mass produce laconia sheets. If you need prom for building base augs, buy some from a nearby AI base. Drones are also an excellent form of defence, so be sure to build those! The Andaman Defenders seem quite nice. And they look very fancy, too.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:42 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
That's awsome maxa, I am very happy for you. What does that have to do with new players on earthforce layer trying to make enough money to go to ws? Or do I have to explain to you that colonies on ef requier prom and you would need 300 to 500 eXtractors across 20 stations to get enough IC just for enks laconia kits?


ShawnMcCall wrote:

Yep, because Dementium doesn't drop in DGs or from roamers as the built commodity... Oh wait it totally does... in fact to get a Dem BP you need Dementium, which would imply that you can get Dem pretty fucking easily without a BP and half a shred of ability to play the game at a competent level... which shit, I guess that means you can't get it...



OH OH come quickly, shawn is going to show us how to kill delquads on a locution with tech 18 gear... Oh shawn does not play any more... Well then.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:41 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
I don't know about you, but I don't shoot delquads all that often. I go after just about everything but Delquads, because Delquads like to shoot my wild slaves over my tankier main ship.

You don't have to use bases to make money in EF Layer. You're specifically trying to finance a team in EF Layer, which I find laughable. Most new players are going to be more interested in doing dungeons and raids over bases, and if I was a team leader, I would be trying my hardest to keep this as fun and streamlined as possible. Bases I'd fund their skills, drones, and stuff, asking to use their slots to help foster the team.

The very notion you think "What do I get out of it?" probably stems from the history of bad players that got on DSF. I had a headache of people being recruited as bodies and ending up asking that question when I ask for slots. Even if I (or the team) completely foots the equipment bill, such people refused and would rather sit on their slots doing nothing at all rather than contribute. I should have booted them right there and ruined their reputation as a team player they advertised as. But SOMEONE, starting with an R, explained to me we need bodies.


Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:19 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
This is a great point. There are so many avenues of active income for new players. Trying to rely primarily on passive income in the EF layer makes no sense. It's specifically designed to be inefficient for that.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
anilv wrote:
This is a great point. There are so many avenues of active income for new players. Trying to rely primarily on passive income in the EF layer makes no sense. It's specifically designed to be inefficient for that.


Start naming them, this is gonna be a hoot.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:39 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
DGing.
Prospecting.
Killing roaming AI for augmenters.
Custom Dungeons.
Camping Jungle for JACs/Camping UZ for ZACs.
Colonies.
Industrial Commods (like really, there are 29 different ICs).
Killing trader ai for Scorched Trader commods and Specialized Trade Goods.
Subspace mining.
Aveksaka alien farming.
Strontium-90 missions.
Inferno capping.
Camping Copper for damage and hostile augs.
Turning in items for Enforcer/Constable/Tortuga/IT gear.
Selling DG loot with a shop.
Mining Blue Outpost/Arena Lobby/Bonnet/Rocky Horror/Olympus Mini rooms
DG Ubers.


Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:02 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
hit button twice, tired

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Last edited by lrellok on Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:39 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
This was even funnier then i expected. Hey, you remember all those times you thought i was trying to embarrass you maxa? Here is me embarrassing you.

Colonies. - as we have already covered a couple of times, EF colonies requier Prom belts to not be raided into the ground. However, they are currently the best income source on EF layer. A full set of 5 colonies can be supported by one belt and will yield 1 billion per colony per week, or 60 billion a uni. Lets see how the rest stacks up shall we?

Industrial Commods - the only ICs that are viable on EF layer are the base tier 0's, the rest require items that are functionally impossible to get with any consistency. Lets say our new player has 3 characters with SM 16. So about 90 base slots. two tech 12's for production and sale, so that is 20 bases. LOts averages 20 spots, so that is 400 total extractors, lets say all of them metals, at 17,500. That comes to 7,000 girders per day at 7,000 credits each or 50 million a day. Thats 5.5 billion a uni maxa.

So there is our passive income, best we can do is maybe 60 billion from colonies.

DGing - Gets you maybe 200 million on a weekend binge session, noy counting hurling everything to scrapnotes. SO thats ...3 billion a uni? WIth scrapnotes...20 billion, maybe?

Prospecting. - If you had been a better Counci you might have been aware that prospecting on EF layer has been garbage for the last couple of years. YOu will frequently search 10 or 15 systems without finding anything. WHile a new team of players might try WS or if they are subbed sub space, the AI in these regions will likely kill them while they are tractoring, so i am not certain if that is viable either.

Killing roaming AI for augmenters. - also has not been a viable income for several years...

Custom Dungeons. - name some. Tourtuga is trash, Blue is trash, absolutions drops Abstructors sometimes, Triganium sells for 45 million... maybe you might sell a couple of abstructor's? lets say 15 billion a uni?

Camping Jungle for JACs/Camping UZ for ZACs. - There are no JACs on the market at all right now, lets pretent 200 million is right. The problem is that Jacs only move at the end of the uni, and not in large bundles either, so i would say 10 billion would be generous here.

Killing trader ai for Scorched Trader commods and Specialized Trade Goods. - Not QUITE how i do things, but yes, the tortuga mission will generally get you about 2 billion a week if you are smart, so 30 billion a uni, almost on par with Colonies ...almost.

Subspace mining. - have no clue why this is even here.... Maxa, we are discussing thing NEW PLAYERS on EARTHFORCE LAYER would be able to do. If you are refering to the sub space missions that might be do able. But i have no clue what those pay.

Aveksaka alien farming. See above statement.

Strontium-90 missions.
See above statement.

Inferno capping. - Capping for what? Infernos are ok, as are Blue Betas and Pretty boys, all have items that sell reasonably well, but i doubt you are going to make more then a billion a uni, as most people can cap them just as easily as you can. maybe a billion a unit tops. ANd i have done this consistently btw.

Camping Copper for damage and hostile augs. - Augs have not sold well in years, you really should have talked to any of those "bad players that got on DSF", you would have known this maxa.

Turning in items for Enforcer/Constable/Tortuga/IT gear. - Also has not sold well in...ever? I think Batteries are about the only thing out of there that sells ever.

Selling DG loot with a shop. - unless you find something like a convo II or Hydro, you are better turning it into JYSC in most cases.

Mining Blue Outpost/Arena Lobby/Bonnet/Rocky Horror/Olympus Mini rooms - Trag sells for 40 million...almost no one buys it. Blue Aether does not sell and decays o fast, Mining Tokens almost never drop, and i have no clue what rocky and oly can be mined for.

DG Ubers. - Excoms sell...ok?

So lets look here, Trader Badges and JYSN just barely beat colonies, and the badges are technically passive if you want those kinds of numbers. So yeah, active income on EF layer is even worse then passive income is.

There is a reason i have repeatedly advocated for the prospecting rates to be increased, for the DG loot tables to be published on the wiki, for more Custom Dungeons with better loot to be added. I am not doing this because I like complaining, as much as it might seem like it, i am doing this because EF layer SUCKS RIGHT NOW, as it has been neglected for years.

SO back to the original topic, the only way you are getting off EF layer with enough firepower not to get insta killed is with mountains and mountains of prom.

OR Jeff could publish those tables i have repeatedly requested...that is another option.

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:42 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Rendghast you may consider it not a good example and I'd fairly agree. However, singles is full of currently t19 players(yes endgamers that all know what they are doing). But without EF space, without buying from other players very much. Almost all of them have no issues with money (I think we have 4 of them with over 30b). As well as most are around lvl 3k already.

These people had no bases(we stole all their slots to load the crap out of our one wild space gal which actually makes a ton of money and had really no risk involved) so they made all of their money on their own.

Blanco gives you 250m in cash per kill, if you kill off auric sector you normally get 250m+quite a bit of gold you can sell/turn into ICs. There are tons of ways to make money atm at low end without venturing into even serengeti.

(edit format for easier to read less wall of text)

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:51 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Strontium-90 missions are extremely rewarding for credits, a weekend of doing dgs will get you far, far more then 200 million, if your doing the really low levels dgs you will end up with lots of advanced harvesters/treee cutters/hydros/nu conv 2, also dg bosses drop decent amount of credits, 200 million is about 3-4 more mid level dgs worth of credits alone.

The subpspace mining is for quartz crystals, phased metals, etc. Theres a demand by endgame players for these sometimes for the kalthi skill commods. Also subspace missions are quite rewarding for credits/xp. Each mission rewards like 10-25 million each.

Capping ais is mostly for selling the gear directly to the ai station, iirc infernos are worht about 8m, with gammas bieng worth 15m.

Many of these arnt really viable for endgame players as the amounts are not big enough, but are perfectly fine for leveling players.


Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:55 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
I would echo urza's points. I have no idea where Rendghast's estimates are coming from but I do know that capping Infernos, SBB, and Basils nets you good money if you are willing to do it for a few hours a day. If not, you can still DG and do the Blanco uber to make at least 1b per playing session.

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:56 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Hurr Durr I'm going to be a cynical bastard because I suck at the game and can't play more than 2 hours a week. At this point your insults make me want to cap all your bases should you be p2p. But you're not! Hiding behind the f2p status because quite a few people would gladly destroy you for your attitude and insults.


Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:33 am
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