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Team: Deep Space Federation
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Post Expand EF buildable space to include W2
THose of you who have been paying attention to EF layer will be aware that a certain solo player team has decided to power mine every prom belt on EF layer. This was exactly my concern when i proposed this idea that first time, and was told that this was not a likely possibility. It has now happened. Further, if you look at the team in questions roster, it is painfully obvious that this player intended to increase his mining operations to the point where no one is able to get any prom at all.

I am not certain if this person is merely ver, very greedy or honestly wants some ulterior objective like PvP on EF layer (Which would obviously kill any hope of new player recruitment) but the impact of this behavior should be clear...in order for any new team to get off of EF layer, Prom is required, usually in large quantities. THis persons behavior is going to kill any hope of large scale player recruitment, one way or another.

I have little to no patience with the idea that "Existing teams" will recruit any substantial number of new players, at least not in the numbers we need them. First, of all, in the number we need them, the existing teams are unlikely to have enough team slots. Second of all, most new players will want to organize their own teams, particularly if you have groups joining together, which is not entirely unheard of. However, Even if we where to assume that all new players could find a space on one fo the three large WS teams presently in the game, having one single solo player team able to bogart all resource production on an entire game layer does not look good to anyone.

There are almost double the number of Prom belts in efw2 as there are in ef 0-1. Opening this region to building would impede the team currently trying to bogart prom. Further, adding T1 resources including fermium would make such behavior impossible in the future as well as make lower levels significantly easier for newer players.

The previos arguements against this idea where as follows

1) no one is going to grab every prom belt on EF layer.

Has now happened

2) Allowing people to build in EF w2 will discourage WS participation.

Nearly all W2 systems have been removed from ws and the few that remain are considered garbage.

3) your supposed to fight over the belts.

I have no objection to fighting over belts, that is not what is happening. What is happening in one person is swarming every belt into oblivion. IF you cannot understand the difference, perhaps you need to play on EF for a while.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:07 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Sounds like we just need PvP in EF layer.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:00 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Fyuryus wrote:
Sounds like we just need PvP in EF layer.


Yes, lets kill all possibility of new player recruitment in a dying game, thats a brilliant idea....oh, wait.

Or are you actually stupid enough to think that level 20 and 30 players are going to stay when level 3000 players keep rofl stomping them?

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:05 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
While I think that it would be nice to have some kind of counter to deal with competitors, especially ones that deliberately don't communicate (Second Flight, Insanity, Blood Lotus), I honestly doubt a level 30 is going to go into base building. As a new player, you don't actually need to build until you're level 300, and you're discouraged from doing so from established players. The amount of money you make from bases that early into the game pales in comparison to what you can at much higher levels where you have the trade skills to augment your assets. And aside from building a few Jungle items, there's not much you should be building prior to Tech 20.

For p2ps, Singles have shown that a new team can build up rather quickly and establish themselves. Of course each individual player is going to be weaker than a higher end person, and thus you'll see a lot more people per galaxy, but it's doable and defendable. Greedy people have no place in the early build up system for new teams because the goal is to gear the whole team up. Costs are swallowed and the team barely goes beyond breaking even. The whole of Singles is roughly supporting over their five galaxies what I am supporting over my two.

The key point is having people get off their greedy and or lazy asses and contribute. There are some 8 or 9 little p2p teams that would be a formidable force if they were all combined, except they don't and get destroyed by said combined established teams.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:09 am
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Why can't you compete for the prom roids? There is no galaxy ownership to stop you?

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Max235 wrote:
For p2ps, Singles have shown that a new team can build up rather quickly and establish themselves. Of course each individual player is going to be weaker than a higher end person, and thus you'll see a lot more people per galaxy, but it's doable and defendable. Greedy people have no place in the early build up system for new teams because the goal is to gear the whole team up. Costs are swallowed and the team barely goes beyond breaking even. The whole of Singles is roughly supporting over their five galaxies what I am supporting over my two.


Seriously, please stop brandishing Singles as an example of how new teams can succeed, this is infuriating to me. Singles is succeeding because it's composed of experienced endgame players who know how all the mechanics in the game work. The average team of new players will not be similar at all.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Septagon wrote:
Max235 wrote:
For p2ps, Singles have shown that a new team can build up rather quickly and establish themselves. Of course each individual player is going to be weaker than a higher end person, and thus you'll see a lot more people per galaxy, but it's doable and defendable. Greedy people have no place in the early build up system for new teams because the goal is to gear the whole team up. Costs are swallowed and the team barely goes beyond breaking even. The whole of Singles is roughly supporting over their five galaxies what I am supporting over my two.


Seriously, please stop brandishing Singles as an example of how new teams can succeed, this is infuriating to me. Singles is succeeding because it's composed of experienced endgame players who know how all the mechanics in the game work. The average team of new players will not be similar at all.


Sure. But it's the only really successful "new" team of any stripe.

Kame School -> Keeps to themselves, don't communicate.
Project Mayhem -> Keeps to themselves, don't communicate.
Dark Energy -> Deliberately went out on own, don't communicate.
Resident Brindlebull -> Keeps to themselves, don't communicate.
Devil Dogs -> Two man team.
Sheilds -> Keeps to themselves, don't communicate.
No Bull -> Keeps to themselves, don't communicate.
Solstice -> Keeps to themselves, don't communicate.
Spaghetti-o's -> Small team.
Steel Breeze -> Keeps to themselves, don't communicate.
Left Side -> One man team, don't communicate.
Extraction Experts -> One man team, don't communicate.
Infamous -> One man team, don't communicate.
Purple Pixies -> One man team based out of EF Layer, don't communicate.

The only truly successful teams I see are Aero, Traders, Zephyr, SRX, EF, and DM.

14 new or small teams, all unsuccessful. Most of these guys are actually pretty high on the ladder for experience, even if they have been out of the loop for a while.

Project Mayhem is Ectoclav's team. Devil Dogs has Nirvana. Solstice is Daeman (Trevor account). Purple Pixies has T22 ships. Spaghetti-o's has Spirit of the Poor. Kame School has T22 ships. Extraction Experts deploys ada T20s.

There's a lot of potential if they all combined into one or two teams.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:55 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
anilv wrote:
Why can't you compete for the prom roids? There is no galaxy ownership to stop you?


Really, please tell me how I, with my 20 mining bots, am supposed to compete with someone flooding a belt with 50, 80, 120 bots? Do I really need to go into why that is going to cripple new player recruitment, when they cannot even get past tech 16 without quadruple accounting?

This person has flat out made 5 full accounts simply to cripple every belt on ef layer. I know becouse I have asked them, and was flat out told they will continue making characters and accounts. I work for a living here enk, as do most of the people you want as players. You need to do something about dedicated 24/7 trolls, and you have needed to for a while.

Please go look at the ef belts before replying ty.or talk to killz or goofy, both of whom have had to pull out of belts becouse this guy power flooded them.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
lrellok wrote:
anilv wrote:
Why can't you compete for the prom roids? There is no galaxy ownership to stop you?


Really, please tell me how I, with my 20 mining bots, am supposed to compete with someone flooding a belt with 50, 80, 120 bots? Do I really need to go into why that is going to cripple new player recruitment, when they cannot even get past tech 16 without quadruple accounting?

This person has flat out made 5 full accounts simply to cripple every belt on ef layer. I know becouse I have asked them, and was flat out told they will continue making characters and accounts. I work for a living here enk, as do most of the people you want as players. You need to do something about dedicated 24/7 trolls, and you have needed to for a while.

Please go look at the ef belts before replying ty.or talk to killz or goofy, both of whom have had to pull out of belts becouse this guy power flooded them.


If you put 20 mining bots to work against 120 opponent bots, you should still be obtaining about 14% of the Promethium of the belt, more than enough for progression.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:51 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
That, and if you can't beat them, join them? Or at least join up. Or go P2p.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:22 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
anilv wrote:

If you put 20 mining bots to work against 120 opponent bots, you should still be obtaining about 14% of the Promethium of the belt, more than enough for progression.


I am calling full on bs. First, that is not even remotely how the mechanics play out. I had to completely rework all my mining bots two unis ago becouse someone with spirit streams and range augs took 2/3 of a belts out put with half the number of bots I was using. So no, having 1/6th of the bots on a belt will not assure you 1/6th of the prom.

But let's ignore that completely shall we, I want to be as generous as I can here. Average belt size on ef is 2k sustain. 1/6 is 330 or so. That comes to about 600 enukes sustain. That's one single laconia sheet every, waht, 8, 10 hours? Let's say 3 sheets a day. So a new team, building for a full uni, will have a atotal of 6 laconia kits goin into wild space, and you think that is going to stop 13? HEY 13 what would you say at a 6 lac t18 galaxy if you saw one?

I am trying to take you seriosly here enkine, but you responces are so increadible I cannit dicided if you have completely forgotten the early game or are being deliberatly obstinant.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:11 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
Why can't you build better mining bots if you are being outcompeted? And why should you have to build your own Laconia sheets to progress? At this very instant, there are more Laconia sheets on the market than you could ever require for progression. They are priced at 12m per, which is just about at cost given the value of Enukes in the IC market. Star Sonata is not a single player game. You are expected to rely on the player-driven market for some aspects of progression.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:42 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
anilv wrote:
Why can't you build better mining bots if you are being outcompeted? And why should you have to build your own Laconia sheets to progress? At this very instant, there are more Laconia sheets on the market than you could ever require for progression. They are priced at 12m per, which is just about at cost given the value of Enukes in the IC market. Star Sonata is not a single player game. You are expected to rely on the player-driven market for some aspects of progression.



I am sorry are you seriosly saying you expect shiny nrw players to build 200 mining bots on 4 accounts just to get prom? Or spend 1.5 billion on laconia sheets when they have next to no wAy to make money? These statements are getting wierder by the post enk.

There needsto be viable cash flow on ef layer for players to advance to ws, otherwise we are going to loose them as fast as thy join.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:30 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
You can make Laconia Sheets from Laconia. You could also buy Laconia Sheets from other players.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:52 pm
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Post Re: Expand EF buildable space to include W2
lrellok wrote:
anilv wrote:
Why can't you build better mining bots if you are being outcompeted? And why should you have to build your own Laconia sheets to progress? At this very instant, there are more Laconia sheets on the market than you could ever require for progression. They are priced at 12m per, which is just about at cost given the value of Enukes in the IC market. Star Sonata is not a single player game. You are expected to rely on the player-driven market for some aspects of progression.



I am sorry are you seriosly saying you expect shiny nrw players to build 200 mining bots on 4 accounts just to get prom? Or spend 1.5 billion on laconia sheets when they have next to no wAy to make money? These statements are getting wierder by the post enk.

There needsto be viable cash flow on ef layer for players to advance to ws, otherwise we are going to loose them as fast as thy join.


There are over 9000 Laconia sheets for sale at cost. That is right, they are for sale at cost. If you can afford to make them, you can afford to buy them at 12m per. Most likely it costs you more than 12m per sheet since I'm estimating cost at maximum build discounts at every stage.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:07 am
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