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Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
http://forum.starsonata.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63313		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  chronos [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
Why would you hit Twisted Tesla Augmenter so hard?

Your suggestions are not valid at all. I see Tesla aug as a pure drone aug as it is.

If you take a build cost and time to obtain bp...all your suggestions are not worth of it.

And you would give it Tractor power, Transference Power or Efficiency? Why?

I agree that aug needs some kind of nerf. It is to OP.

My suggestion is:

Twisted Tesla Augmenter: Shield +100%, Shield regen +60%, Energy +60%, Energy regen +60%, Capacity +10%, Drone Ops +20%, Offensive ops +10%, Defensive ops +10%, Everlasting -20%
Author:  anilv [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
chronos wrote:
Why would you hit Twisted Tesla Augmenter so hard?

Your suggestions are not valid at all. I see Tesla aug as a pure drone aug as it is.

If you take a build cost and time to obtain bp...all your suggestions are not worth of it.

And you would give it Tractor power, Transference Power or Efficiency? Why?

I agree that aug needs some kind of nerf. It is to OP.

My suggestion is:

Twisted Tesla Augmenter: Shield +100%, Shield regen +60%, Energy +60%, Energy regen +60%, Capacity +10%, Drone Ops +20%, Offensive ops +10%, Defensive ops +10%, Everlasting -20%


Hello. We are eliminating the practice of having Gen Ops paired with another positive Drone Ops augmod. It leads to extremely overpowered effects due to the way aug math works. Also, I don't think it's fair to characterize the old Tesla stats as a "pure drone aug" since it also had very nice ship stats.
Author:  The Salty One [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
Could you tell us how exactly the aug math works that is so troublesome? I'm not seeing why smaller drone ops bonuses couldn't be bundled with gen ops for when people just want a little of something- like everlasting ops.
Author:  david95 [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
The Salty One wrote:
Could you tell us how exactly the aug math works that is so troublesome? I'm not seeing why smaller drone ops bonuses couldn't be bundled with gen ops for when people just want a little of something- like everlasting ops.


I'd also like to see the math behind it as well, like mentioned before the changes to teslas are massive and knowing WHY it was op might help explain why the aug itself needed such a huge change.
Author:  anilv [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
Sure, all those augmods are added up separately and then multiplied in the end. If you have +100% Drone Ops, throwing on an additional +30% Offensive Ops means you actually have

(1+1.00)*(1+0.30) = (1 + 1.60) or +160% to Offensive Ops.

As you can see, it becomes a complicated balancing act between the four augmods to figure out the best multiplicative bonus. Especially since the bonus is weighted differently for each stat, this is unnecessarily complicated from the player perspective. Another way to go about this would be to get into the code and change the way the four augmods interact, so that the three specialized ones really just add up with the general one. We have three reasons for not doing this:

1) Changing the math behind augmods is not a 30 second fix. They tend to have effects all over the code and we certainly don't want to do a half-ass job.

2) This is a surgical fix to three unbalanced drone ops augmenters, but a more universal change to drones and drone ops may yet be in the pipeline. We do not want to devote dev time to a project that may just end up getting worked over in the near future.

3) We are instituting a dev policy that attempts to limit new augmenters to seven different stats. This doesn't mean that every single aug with more than seven stats will be reworked, but if an augmenter is already being rebalanced, we will do our best to reduce the overall number of stats. There are several good reasons behind this design philosophy that I would be happy to go into in a separate discussion.
Author:  Max235 [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
There are no weighted non-drone stats. I don't see why Gen Ops can't be removed and Def/Off/Everlasting Ops broken down into their component stats. That way you could balance them like ship stats and spread out drone stats to non-drone augs instead of the small handful we have now.

There is one slight issue with having drone augs with multiple split drone stats, like the updated Tesla aug. That is a lot of stat bloat, but a solution to that is also simple. Just make the maximum number of Drone Stats (eg Drone Damage, Drone Electricity, etc) limited to three. This has the added bonus of having stronger stats on the remaining three stats for something like Tesla (which would have six). Singular augmenters will feel more powerful for whatever specialization they are given rather than needing to package all three (or four, for LFs) augs together as a set.

Combining Ship Mastery augs and the different levels of Class/Art augs, we have a grand total of 15 drone augs.

Offensive/Ares
Defensive/Pos
General/Heph
Everlast/Zeus
Art/Ultimate Art
Banu
Samgahaka
Tesla
Hound
Frost
Rime
Lavrite
Aspect of the Elephant
Banu Qo
Ship Masteries
Author:  chronos [ Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
You killed Twisted Tesla aug with these new stats.

Why do we need Transference Efficiency/Power on every engineer aug?

Also why did you remove shield regen?
Author:  Pixel [ Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incoming changes / nerfs to Engineer augmenters
Added some Twisted Tesla refund missions in Prejudice for next universe. It should be put in the patch after universe reset and will probably manually have to be added into the AI base.

2x Refund (1 time use) missions for 16 Twisted Tokens. Twisted Tesla Augmenter.

May consider one for the Mechanical Hound also.
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