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How would you rather the Class Skills were structured?
Fixed order like now (but reordered) 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Choosable 93%  93%  [ 26 ]
Other (please specify in comments) 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 28

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Post Re: Class Skills
Okay, since Jeff is against the sandbox aspect of skills I will point out some flaws in the current skill sets.

Gunners- Gunner Class 1 gives weapon hold and allows you to multi-fire. This is BEYOND pointless at the level. Your primary source of damage at this stage is missiles because of the way they scale. They are useful early game and semi-pointless late game. Missile buffs need to be put in the start of the class and not the end of the class.
---Recommended fix: Have class skills changed to 3,1,2 and subskills changed to 3,2,1.

Berserkers - This class has a huge issue of not being very viable early game compared to other classes. Not sure how to fix it but the damage they do is not great, sustain doesn't happen because of the multi-fire skills. End game though they need more hostility without needing to mod stack.

Fleet Commanders - I dont really see any issues here.

Speed Demon - For your entire first line all you get is speed, docking speed and turning which is great for mobility but early game that doesn't matter as much. I feel like maybe Class 2 should switch with Class 1.

Shield Monkey - Besides being totally irrelevant late game right now because most new players will be starting by themselves, I feel like they aren't loved enough early game. They have 2 subskills for damage both being subskill 2 and 3. Early game shield trans helps, but they will be playing solo most likely and will need the damage that those subskills provide. On top of that the class needs more trans power to become relevant late game again.

Snipers - Mainly using range to stay alive and do enough damage early game it seems that subskill 1 and 2 need switched. Stealth will have little affect with them early game in comparison to building a fast ranged ship. Honestly though I dont play snipers so my opinion on this could be %100 wrong.


Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:07 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
anilv wrote:
Which class do you think is supposed to be the primary tank?


It would make more sense for FC, whose main ship early game is for all practical purposes a cinder block in space emitting auras and the occasional fighter. Engi could tank, if they did not have to repossession drones quite so much.

Removing the energy Charge from FC 3, replace it with the bot bonus, and add a corresponding hostility bonus in place of bot mastery would make so much more sense then what the class does presently. I actually know of very few early game FC who do not simply dump resistance augs onto their main ship so a resistance buff would be redundant.

Now again, i am not saying zerker should NOT tank, i am saying it should be OPTIONAL.

edit; typed wrong class due to me doing to many things at once.

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Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:10 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
Even if Jeff has decided on having this design, I'd like to say that I am very against it - for reasons stated above by pretty much all the other players.


Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
anilv wrote:
lrellok wrote:
I would very much like to see the bonuses from "Impervios Armor" swapped with the combined bonuses from "Eye for an Eye" and "Berserkeing Berserker". I have never understood why zerkers should be the primary tank, nor why i would want to take a 30% speed nerf for something i am not interested in doing in the first place. If people WANT to do tank, that is awesome, i am happy for them, but ti really should be optional, not mandatory.

Also, can we PLEASE get the ship limitation removed from Gunner Class 2 &3?


Which class do you think is supposed to be the primary tank?


Berserker, Sniper, Fleet Commander, and Gunner.

World of Warcraft has a system where nearly half of their classes are perfectly valid tanks, though each tank class have specific niches. Same goes for healers. This ensures that people who join raids and guilds do not need to make multiple characters to be useful, and can swap to a different specialization if they need to do so because the raid lacks a healer or tank. All classes in WoW are also perfectly valid DPS classes.

In Star Sonata, the only real valid tank is Berserker, which is both unpopular with new people (you'd note 95%+ Berserkers are very high level players and their Berserker is a twinked out alt) and have some annoying little issues (Impervious Armor reducing your speed by 30%) that make it very unfun to play beyond a pure tank for a MC squad.

I won't count Gunner as a tank because its item is a prototype mechanic; aka it being a tank is not fully fleshed out.

Fleet Commander is *supposed* to be a tank because of hostility bonuses back when Fleet Focus was one single skill, but without aggro transfer from assets it can't pull aggro and have to rely entirely on Resist builds to keep its shield bank lower than its slaves, which of course is next to impossible because all the augs a FC will want to use have Shield Max on them, and especially the T21/22 augs.

Sniper has been used as a tank before and it does work. The main advantage is range. You can reach out and touch stuff to pull aggro while the slow and short range Berserker struggles to get into position. However, this was only really possible with the 4 aug Prawn. In theory a Sniper could use a Pwave or KWW, but the way it goes now, Sniper is a pure dps class and most snipers end up a lot squishier than Speed Demons and Seers.


Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
The SS Press Corps has relayed a list of requested reorderings of the class subskills. We will examine this list and report our proposal soon.

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Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
I voted other because i'm sick of receiving redundant stats for classes, i want alternative stats to choose from but at a penalty to others. FCs never use radiation anymore, Fleet focus on a gunner is like wtf why does a gunner need docking speed. Some snipers NEVER use cloaks but are stuck with that terrible stat. There needs to be more diverse skill selections rather than just button bash them all and hope you get a nice variety from augs and weps.


Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:15 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
We aren't looking to dramatically alter the bonuses that the focus, class, and subskills provide. The kind of customizability shashu is talking about is going to have to come from the advanced subskills. If there are advanced subskills out there that aren't being used, feel free to let us know and suggest new concepts for them. The same is true for class-locked super items that aren't in use.

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Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:16 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
More customisation would make it better for players and feel more free, but it would make balancing it harder.

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Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:45 am
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Post Re: Class Skills
nc44 wrote:
More customisation would make it better for players and feel more free, but it would make balancing it harder.


This is one of the reasons we aren't open to tearing up the class system to that extent.

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Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:00 am
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Post Re: Class Skills
Ideally the class skills should give you a baseline of what the class is, and then Adv Skills open up options while taking away options. Berserker Classic is a good example. Historically the Lion was always the choice against the Zebra, and the Wattage against the Poseidon Wave. This is due to hullspace, as Zerks MF5 naturally. When the change came in to make them MF3, and Berserker Classic added as an afterthought customization, this still the case.

You get considerably more burst dps (the -RoF just means you can have a more RoF build rather than Damage build), but you use more electricity and need more hull. Which, naturally points to Lion/Wattage/Fury/Subhatt. Use of the KWW/KAW is problematic because they are low hull.


Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
@Enkelin: I for one am not that interested in hearing what you can't do or are unwilling to consider, it doesn't do you favors to outright dismiss what a ridiculous amount of players are saying would be good to change. Instead please focus on what you can change to accommodate the suggestions and desires of the player base.

Additionally, the fact that a lot of time has been spent on this existing system should not be a reason to keep it. I will be looking forward to learning what you can change.


Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:51 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
Naruto wrote:
@Enkelin: I for one am not that interested in hearing what you can't do or are unwilling to consider, it doesn't do you favors to outright dismiss what a ridiculous amount of players are saying would be good to change. Instead please focus on what you can change to accommodate the suggestions and desires of the player base.

Additionally, the fact that a lot of time has been spent on this existing system should not be a reason to keep it. I will be looking forward to learning what you can change.


I could not unilaterally accommodate your request even if I wanted to. I'm simply doing you and the community the courtesy of relaying to you what Jeff has determined is the correct approach in this matter.

To go along with that, I've outlined a few approaches that I think Jeff would be amenable to. It is up to you whether you choose to take me up on those offers.

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Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:36 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
My prefence:
Engi: Drones-Resists-Tractor
Engineer without drones really doesn't make sense and after that it's nice to be tanky. No one gets any real use out of tractors at early levels, so it should be last.

Zerk: Ordinance-Impervious-Arsenal
Being tanky is useless if you can't even power your weapons to kill stuff. Similarly, at the very earliest levels you don't have problems with space or weapon hold(much), so it's just not very important.

FC: Slave stats/Fighter stats-Radex(slave stats and fighter stats both work as first skill)
Both slave stats and fighter stats are pretty nice and viable, so it doesn't matter which one is first. I'd prefer fighters first simply because you don't need an obscure(for a noob) skill to use them.
Radex in the nexus doesn't seem like something people would actually be capable of using, so it should definitely not be first. Since slaves and fighters are so good I'd put radex last.

Seer: Crit chance-crit power-stealth
Lowbie seers have a serious problem with dealing damage. You need more skills than most(cloaking) and have to do it from ships with crappy stats. Stealth isn't nearly as much of an issue as damage though, since a decent cloak will keep you safe even without auging for stealth. Thus, first crit chance to actually crit, then crit power to deal real damage and finally the stealth you don't need all that fast anyway.

SD: RoF-Damage-Speed
Same as seer, tons of issues with actually dealing damage and crappy ship choices. I'd put the damage skill first if it weren't for the range penalty. Losing range is a huge issue at low levels since due to your useless overall stats you need to kite stuff. Thus, RoF is better despite raping your energy.

Sniper: Range/Stalking/Efficiency(all works)
Sniper is well-off. Every skill is about as useful, so I don't care what order they're in.

ShM: Damage/Bot damage-Shield boost
Doesn't matter where you get the damage, although having it on your main ship is easier. The shield boost skill is pretty useless unless you play in groups, which most noobs don't do, so it should definitely be last.

Gunner: Big guns/Missiles-Destruction
Lots of viable choices, but basically 3 distinct playstyles.
Big Guns first if gunner is about GUNS like a GUNNER. Missiles first if it's about abusing opaf mission damage(seriously, that shit should just be Hobernerfed).


Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
Xonok, missiles at end-game drop off so hard all you'll ever use are Disentigrators or maybe an odd lancer to catch a fast target. Nothing else sadly.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:05 pm
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Post Re: Class Skills
Well, that's how it tends to be with flat damage. The rest of the game has an exponential scaling, but missiles are linear, so they start out OP and then become shit. I personally don't use missiles at all because I hate how high damage they do at earlier levels.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:12 pm
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