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Main: NeonSword
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Post F2P Ideas... 2.0
This is considered 2.0 because its expands on the idea of Earthforce PvP for f2p's while controlling the greifing potential so many are concerned about.

This came about on a dicussion with Maxathron on discord a few days ago.

As many of you know, I am Lord of Pi who has notoriously been picking on DSF for the past month or so in Auric Sector, Absolution, Underworld; you name it. While the PvP aspect is the most exciting part about camping these locations, there is an added side effect to this behavior. By deliberately stationing my teammates and myself at these locations, we are causing economic damage by blockading resources.

Rendghast brought up an issue that earthforce layer lacks as a trial area for people to prepare themselves financially for p2p and to expand into wild space. I think this is far from the truth.

First of all, Industrial commodities have become the bread and butter for income for a while now and this is especially true in wild space where people are competing with each other for planets with rare commods and ruins. This is usually done with bases extracting and bvb for conquest. This is somewhat possible in earthforce layer using the t0 commodities to make the t0 IC's although its not comparable to the money made in wild space.

However, there is a healthy rememdy to this and its already implemented into the game. Some t1 and t2 commodities can be mined for in earthforce layer in specific galaxies allowing for players/teams to mine and produce higher tiered IC's and increase their income significantly.

I believe that galaxies like these are very benefitial to earthforce layer's intended use. They encourage many aspects of the game essential to understanding how the game works such as:

-Banding together in teams for protection
-Diplomacy for sharing resources
-War for contesting resources
-Coordination for group activities
-Streamlining the process for transitioning to P2P


Also, this is especially good in f2p where the tech is low enough to prevent 1 character from wiping entire squads.

Additions of such galaxies should keep this in mind, and possibly have higher danger factors for less issues with healers dodging the pvp range.

Thoughts?


Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:24 pm
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Team: Deep Space Federation
Rank: Operator
Main: Rendghast
Level: 1467

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:47 am
Posts: 489
Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
1) i have spent the last uni trying to get t0 IC off of EF layer to work. You have my assurance that it is totally and completely inviable. WIth two galaxies running two full accounts at 50 stations in total, i am producing at most 10 million materials a day or 15,000 IC. At current prices that would come to 60 million credits daily, IF i was able to get them to wild space. Which i am not. That is less then a tenth of what i made from colonies last uni. In short, EF IC are completely useless for funding anything and i would not consider fighting over them as it would cost more to build augs then the IC would get me.

2) You have not specifically listed which galaxies you are talking about. The only one i am aware of is Psion Icicles from absolution, which you have already mentioned is PvP. You can make Enriched Nuclear Materials via the Fremium > Promethium > Enriched Nukes. However, Darksteel invariably has the t1 market flooded out, so you are going to need to go t2 before you are going to see any real profits, and i have no clue where you would get any of those items on EFlayer. If you are aware of a location, please, enlighten me.

3) The cost of a lower DF Lac 16 base/aug setup alone exceeds 40 billion credits and 1 million prom. Per gal. Thats the entire profit of doing both Colored Empires and Blanco every day for a uni. And does not include the cost of things like ships, weapons, crests, suites, drones, and misc equipment. So no, EF layer is not rolling in free credits.

4) You seem to be totally ignoring the issue of PvP range in one way wars. Even in DF 70 a level 800 player can attack level 400 players. That is someone with tech 17 weapons shooting at someone with tech 10, maybe 12 weapons. If we actually increase the DF to 120 or even 150, the problem gets even worse with level 1200 players able to attack level 400 players. Anyone who has played P servers know that PvP servers always have less players then PvE servers, due to the whole "Most people hate griefing" issues. This is not a recipe for teamwork, this is a recipe for watching all our new players rage quit.

In short, this suggestion is nothing more then neon whining he cannot grief lower level players because he is to garbage to fight people his own level. If you want to PvP, go back to WS dude.

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Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:57 pm
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Team: Star Revolution X
Rank: Peon
Main: Maxathron
Level: 2362

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 5777
Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
Will call you out on it.

A T20 Lac kit is 20 Lac Sheets, 20 Tit Sheets, some misc credits and metals.
~250m per kit.

Assuming 10 kits are deployed to defend the gal, thats 2.5b.

Assuming we use Jungle base augs, thats:

10 kits x 4 augs x 2 JACs per aug = ~16b.

Some random Std. augmenters.

So you decided to buy all that off the market when you know you have low credit income...


Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:25 pm
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Team: Deep Space Federation
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:47 am
Posts: 489
Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
/me sighs

Maxa, contrary to popular opinion, i am not stupid. Having been told by half a dozen people that IF DSF ever comes to wild space, we are going to get instantly attacked, i am going to assume that if DSF ever goes to wild space, we will be instantly attacked. And thus, i am not going to use mid range augs on a handful of bases for defenses.

Cost of a T16 Laconia kit is Station kit 50 million, 10 titanium sheets 10 million, 10 laconia sheets 100 million, Misc build costs 5 million, or a total of 165 million per kit.

Two full accounts of kits of kits (standard for most gals) is 40 kits, which brings the kit total to 6.6 billion.

Now for augs. The only jungle aug i would consider using would be Leopard, possibly tiger for the resist, but mostly they are extremely meh. I could go with Station Tech and Alien augs, at 64 million each those would come within your 16 billion price range, but more likely i am going to have to primarily rely on Anda Z augs at (4 particular base augs 64 million, 2 anda combo 64 million, 1 anda z 32 million, 128 titanium sheets 128 million) a total of 288 million a pop. Four of them per base, 40 bases, is 46 billion in augs alone. Now, let us assume i am economical and use a combination of anda z, stat tech and alien augs. That brings the price tag to 18 billion, for a total cost, before weapons, diffusers, overloaders or exterminators, of 24 billion. But i am probably going to have to spend the 52 billion for the whole shibang just to be safe.

In any event, (52+24)/2= 38, so yes, somewhere between the minimum and maximum defense costs I would expect to pay is about 40 billion.

And yes, i do apply this to other teams, the idea that people who openly criticize larger older teams should be subject to attack is something i had literally never heard of prior to coming to SS2. You are going to get some very mouthy people off of steam, and they are quickly going to realize they need to build to back their tongue up. So again, yeah, 40 billion in defenses is what i would consider entirely reasonable from anyone new to the server.

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Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:35 pm
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Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
I don't bother with using T16 Lac kits for *exterior defense* kits. I use them for EXEs and maybe I'll aug a few here and there to cover termites. I go straight for the big T20 kits, though you can get away with the Lac and Dem versions.

When I got DSF to wild space, no one attacked me or my crew. The one time when Seele Piraten shot up *my* beacon doesn't count because they did it impromptu and did it against the orders of both their director and their two councilors.

I didn't do anything really special to warrant not being attacked. What I did do, however, was:

1. I had diplomatic relations going at all times. I knew where other teams were, what gals they wanted, what gals they were able to grab, what their capabilities were, what their leaders were thinking, what their membership was capable of doing, and made sure that if any of our neighbors thought about taking something from us, that we were going to retaliate by capping and demoing.

2. I made sure that DSF members didn't back talk, talk shit, or act out of line. If they did, they were out. That, for the most part, ensured that any diplomatic issues came from other teams encroaching on us, not us encroaching on them. I can tolerate noobs, I don't tolerate deliberate incompetence. I should have booted a few people sooner.

3. I made deals with people I couldn't beat or didn't want to use effort to beat. Paying off someone like -13- is infinitely more useful than attacking him or taunting him. It was a pity he didn't fully trust me for the UrQa ruins in the second universe.

What happened in the time since I was councilor amounted to this:

1. A number of DSF members out of ear shot of their leaders (Trixx, Darkmoor, and Chalfonts) were pretty cocky and rude, riding on the fact they were f2p. They could be as abusive as they wanted since all of DSF was Earthforce-based and thus impossible to attack.

2. A certain councilor was a little too vocal on some of his complaints and basically was disregarded by most of the dev team outright. This councilor also tried to suggest a nerf to a certain Industrial Commodity because it was *too profitable*, which of course earned him some enemies by recommending other people's incomes to be nerfed outside of the universe IC report that Enkelin does and adjusts prices between universes.


Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:54 pm
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Team: Deep Space Federation
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Main: Rendghast
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:47 am
Posts: 489
Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
Max235 wrote:
I don't bother with using T16 Lac kits for *exterior defense* kits. I use them for EXEs and maybe I'll aug a few here and there to cover termites. I go straight for the big T20 kits, though you can get away with the Lac and Dem versions.


If you want me to recalc for 12 dem 18's and 28 Lac 16's i happily will....but given that Dementium alone bumps the price by 24 billion, that is not going to do much for you claim that i am over pricing.

As to the rest of it...welcome to any normal MMO? I remember teams sitting in their bases screaming ever swear word in 5 languages over global in a couple of RO servers, and those where not even PvP servers. I think the players here are going to have to get used to people talking smack, or we are going to loose alot of players very, very fast.

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:15 am
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Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
Based off my galaxies, I'm making about 10b per account and currently supporting 8 accounts. My prod gal (which I don't use for credit income) has about 20 exe kits and so I can safely double the potential income.

A single galaxy that is somehow worth 40 exe kits is also worth 15 large STM kits (a full dedicated account) because it will make about 20b a day alone and in totality about 2tril in one universe. That is split between three accounts that make up the galaxy. It is also worth every exe kit in that galaxy dem or ada and fully augged for combat plus maxed out drone slots and drone logistics if you're the team leader.

Instead of trying to go for that many *Laconia* kits, I would just use normal kits and aug a few for supporting long range HPS while resting on a number of unattached STM kits for clearing termites. If it dies, it dies. Get money from it while you can.

No one is out to get you in this game if you don't run your mouth. I'm not saying people won't be out to grab your galaxy. I'm saying people aren't out to attack you no matter where you go if you don't run your mouth. Most of your "everyone is out to hurt me!" problems are from you or your teammates running their mouth and or provoking people into doing that. If you poke the snake with a stick, don't complain when it bites you. You poke it with a stick and vocally complain when you get bitten.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:54 am
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Team: Deep Space Federation
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Main: Rendghast
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Posts: 489
Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
Max235 wrote:
Based off my galaxies, I'm making about 10b per account and currently supporting 8 accounts. My prod gal (which I don't use for credit income) has about 20 exe kits and so I can safely double the potential income.

A single galaxy that is somehow worth 40 exe kits is also worth 15 large STM kits (a full dedicated account) because it will make about 20b a day alone and in totality about 2tril in one universe. That is split between three accounts that make up the galaxy. It is also worth every exe kit in that galaxy dem or ada and fully augged for combat plus maxed out drone slots and drone logistics if you're the team leader.


That is lovely maxa, i am so happy you are able to warp time and space so you can build galaxies with money you made after you built them. Unfortunately, the rest of us do not have that ability.

Max235 wrote:
No one is out to get you in this game if you don't run your mouth. I'm not saying people won't be out to grab your galaxy. I'm saying people aren't out to attack you no matter where you go if you don't run your mouth. Most of your "everyone is out to hurt me!" problems are from you or your teammates running their mouth and or provoking people into doing that. If you poke the snake with a stick, don't complain when it bites you. You poke it with a stick and vocally complain when you get bitten.


I repeat, welcome to any normal MMO. I repeat, get used to people shit talking or we are going to loose a very large number of new players very quickly. Oh, and i have, when i was younger, stood yelling at snakes all day long, you know what, not one of them ever bit me.

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:48 am
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Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
In this game you keep complaining about "As soon as DSF steps foot in WS, half a dozen major teams will converge and attack you."

That comes specifically from DSF members and a certain councilor running their mouth. Using those referee pictures and screaming at people with Latin terms really did not help your cause even though you were technically correct. It just made you look like an asshole.

"It's too expensive to make a solid galaxy."

Then don't. Use normal T16s you buy from the AI base. You don't need Laconia kits. JACs can be farmed. Augmenters can be gained through DGing and in some cases farmed. Damage augs: Copper, Recovery augs: Forgones and Ice Picks, Firing and Elect augs: Slumberchromes, Range augs: Green Battleships. Go farm them.

10 people (f2p even) doing Jungle every day nets on average now 8 JACs. Thats 2400 JACs a month, or 1200 base augs. Thats roughly worth augging 80 four aug kits, assuming you actually need to aug that many bases.

Provided you did this for a whole uni, thats worth 225 bases. If your team even have that many slots, 225 bases is worth up to 24 trillion in a single universe. Compare this to the 1.6 tril that your teammates would have otherwise had to split if they sold off the JACs alone. I mean yes it does require some investment into Brake items, but whats a few hundred billion worth of brakes if you somehow get 225 bases running.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:13 pm
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Team: Deep Space Federation
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Main: Rendghast
Level: 1467

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:47 am
Posts: 489
Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
Max235 wrote:
That comes specifically from DSF members and a certain councilor running their mouth. Using those referee pictures and screaming at people with Latin terms really did not help your cause even though you were technically correct. It just made you look like an asshole.


For the third time, welcome to any normal MMO maxa. you seem to have a hearing problem...or maybe a reading problem, not certain.

Max235 wrote:
Then don't. Use normal T16s you buy from the AI base. You don't need Laconia kits.

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:27 pm
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Team: Star Revolution X
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Post Re: F2P Ideas... 2.0
Laconia T16 augged Tiger, Leopard, Bear, Monkey: 67% resist, 20% to mining.

T16 AI base kit augged the same way: 62% resist, 20% to mining.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:01 pm
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