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Post What came of it
Here is the survey
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1uPa5aH ... wanalytics

Here is the content
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12Vb ... CAupunNxtY

They ended up being separate entities (but they did reinforce my view), but both, ultimately, have their uses.

Have your fun with that, I take my leave.

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:59 am
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Post Re: What came of it
This is a really great writeup and it will take me a while to digest it all. Thank you for your initiative and dedication in creating this document.

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Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. You may know me in-game as enkelin. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live.


Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:34 pm
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Post Re: What came of it
yclepticon wrote:
This is a really great writeup and it will take me a while to digest it all. Thank you for your initiative and dedication in creating this document.

I wrote it and rewrote it like 5 times. It kept getting shorter each time. Seriously, redraft after redraft. I constantly kept coming up with different ideas to how to approach the game and its design.

I had an idea to bring back PVP in a manner which wouldn't be completely offensive which would tie in with the restructuring of gear and its own droprate. The idea is (if the best in slot gear is not 'totally' dominant over normal slot, and the T20 gear is not excessively worse and psychologically achievement robbing from the T22 gear - and all gear drops more frequently - then people will not really mind losing much of anything, and pirating becomes partially viable)

The reason I didn't post it is it had too many flaws. The idea of sets of gear came from watching a players bank on a Runescape video where the idea of losing everything is a distinct possibility. He had a few bandos sets and other sets of rune pking gear should his bandos run out. All you really need to know is bandos is better than rune defensively, but someone in rune could hypothetically pk someone in bandos (or even better gear, with a great challenge), and he could also choose his armor fit for task. He doesn't have to pilot around with his gear since his storage is very very safe.

1. Unsandbox everything in the name of exploration. No class locks. Base gear on ships, ship gear on bases. (size)
2. Active income must exceed passive income... unless you're really skilled. Even then, active income should be greater.
3. Increase the droprate of solid gear, increase the ease of access to solid gear, - SS would be BETTER with a 'sets of gear' mentality, rather than 'best in slot, one set of gear' mentality. Increase the brutality of the game. expounds blueprints, money should be easier to make than it is to lose. You would not lose your ship or augmenters.
4. Resetting exploited and unintended effects.
5. Gear needs to stop being so multiplicative.
6. the idea of Best in Slot by a mile is a mistake, things should be slightly harder, slightly stronger.
7. Set augs on bosses.
8. Resistance Augmenters should not be on random AI.
9. Safe Layer
10. Bosses not instanced. Player-based monopolies are encouraged.

Essentially, however, I discovered that the best way to convey how I felt was to give the MDA framework and examples of how that approach can stem into balance and numbers. Rather than working in the balance and numbers and expecting fun byproxy in the end.

"Well it's gotta be fun for the player, it's gotta feel impactful for the player, the player has to feel meaningful, the player also has to feel challenged.

So... increases should be smaller in power... by this we appeal far more to the casual player and to the hardcore minmaxer


The way things multiply in Star Sonata right now is exponential, and I'm really not surprised. You are generally punished the further you get in, content is very yes/no, rather than an 'always maybe if you play it right'. This is because of how the multipliers function, and how numbers are arbitrarily thrown around."

I came to the conclusion that the balance sheets were wrong. Not in principle, but somewhere along the way they have become distorted in the worst possible manner for the game. Certain concepts are worth so much more. How did KRS (Kidd's Resilient Shielding) ever make it into the game? It's perhaps the best shield ingame for anything that fires its weapon. Why are some of the lower Energies and Shields significant in their own bonuses? How are these worked out...? And are they healthy for a game environment? Or do they crush individuality and the ability to make your own choices.

As far as I have seen, content has been balanced around the Best in Slot gear where possible. We work out a guy with Kidd's Resilient Shielding, Hoberian Augged, Decent weapon and other bits can solo Kalthi depths really effectively in that Twisted ship. So we make it a bit harder where possible for him to do so.

Now how much have we actually punished normal and casual players who are just in this for fun? Loads! They're forced to get all that crap to even play the game! (which can take a while) - and certainly relies on and rewards the 'old guard'.

I do not see how this can be seen as a healthy standard. Once again, looking at fun and personal player access, diminishing the gap between the top and the decent range, and the decent and the terrible, will end up with a healthier environment overall.

The thing is, wonderful people such as Intrepid and SunDog60 are already working on elitist bosses that feature the 'rule of cool' and are a segway from the more casual content. Eventually, no doubt, those bosses will become brick-wall as gear exponentially multiplies past the point of reason.

Which is the way things are headed, right now. And how boring is that? To have runs that are easy and runs that are "hard". There's always going to be people who find a way to access content in an unintended manner but I would claim right now is unintended.

Statistics upon statistics for the sake of statistics. Players want the shiny is your motivator to release shiny items.

But why not make everything shine? Making everything competitive by varying degrees allows players to make decisions on what they take.

Also my pre-proposal of reducing the gear (with the stop gear) would probably bring regen shields back in line. Maybe that Misdirection would finally be better than something else. (naturally you'd also reduce the numbers on everything else in the game, including the damage buffs on Basil Sheath / Basil Mega Sheath and KRS)

+20% here
+50% there
+85% there
+100% there
+300% there
+augtweak
+imp tweak
+ship mods (what a mistake they were... I recommend removing ship mods and neurobind gear COMPLETELY since they decrease the idea of sandbox and make anything except the desired result 'not fun'... it's supposed to be the gear that's unique and special. not the mods)

and when you're hunting for a mod it feels so meaningless, but when you stack them, once again, power increases exponentially, and wahey, the content now has to be balanced to be fun for you when it should be fun for everyone making them an innate demand for any kind of significant movement during the game.

Another thing I thought of is... Why are Seers so fast? There's no reason they should be. If they're highly stealthy, highly fast, (sometimes tanky with the ridiculous banu aug) and high damage you're making a mistake. Pick two of those and work from there. - You can give it high stealth high damage and extremely mild speed. You can give it high damage, high speed (speed demon) but mild stealth.

SS needs reductions in its design to increase the power of the game across the board. It needs admission that the ICs have made the only genuine source of income (great stuff coming from Urza and Alexander Anderson soon) - So active income must compensate, since the economy has already been burned. It needs deletion of these little tweaks (that actually do nothing) and an overall compression of numbers to bring further balance to the universe.

Yes, yes, hypothetically you do destroy some current avenues of power which people get fun from, but those people are robbed of their fun BY these avenues of power. The problem doesn't lie directly with engi, directly with any particular class.

You've got 8 classes to balance, loads of ships to balance and day by day you make your job exceptionally harder with the most extreme augmenters and stat increases imaginable. How easy it would really be to balance things if X (bhisaj), Y (mad kidd+) or Z (Vaidaya Krmikosa) were only 'slightly' better than the alternative.

But you CANT do that. You have neither the will to do so nor really a good reason. I've said time and time again it's not Engineer that should be approached with Hober's pair of menacing balance scissors because it's the game that needs to be cut (and more than in half) - Numbers need to be adjusted, slowly and with passion. With caution and consideration. The whole deal needs to be looked at.

Capital Ships having massive shields is ridiculous! I think the release of Capital Ships coincided with the complete uselessness of so much content - Why level in anything other than the capital ship line, when they are so innately powerful (and cheap and easy to mass produce? Or even shop buy?) - Since then you did nerf their resistances, but this hasn't fixed the problem, it's just muddied the water.

Q: but we wanted to give players an option to have 2 aug slots and a tankier ship...
A: YOU DIDN'T GIVE ANYONE AN OPTION. YOU TOOK IT AWAY FROM THEM. You created a new concept of balance, and were forced to balance things against that new line of balance.

People aren't REALLY mad that Engi's getting nerfed, people aren't REALLY mad that the BVB changes are coming in. People aren't REALLY mad that it's taken nearly 6 months to fix the kill 200 mission.

They're mad because the game shows no potential of becoming healthier. It's like a really fat kid who can't stop eating chocolate and crisps, and you're worried about them so they leave one or two crisps in every bag or one bite of chocolate (whilst picking up three or four more packs of crisps or chocolates).

How I would love this game to grow and thrive. Honestly. The potential is there.

You have some really smart people on the team, and a steam release coming (soon TM)

But if you do not design the game with fun in the forefront of the mind (what is a fun mechanic, why? - see above document) then it breaks.

Seriously though, I need to get back to working on that cat girl game. It's gonna be great. I want SS to be great too and that's why I'm here, but I can only control insofar as what I can control. I'll check back over the course of the week.

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:25 am
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Post Re: What came of it
Oh yeah, seriously though...

bring back the crack whores.

Pro:
Reason 1) They do not decrease the marketability of the game. They increase it, and help it appeal to a younger, edgier crowd.
Reason 2) Pandering to social justice doesn't please social justice types or help them stay in your game, all it does is render you innately manipulable. On top of that you'll be looked down upon by their political opponents and be seen as 'cucked' for not standing up for your design.
Reason 3) There is no attribution to the gender of said crack whores.
Reason 4) They prompt discussion. Older people might consider them a bit cheesy and low-humour so they might ask for their removal, but you have to stick to your guns. Ever wondered why most of the current SS community is really edgy players? It's probably the crack whores. (keep in mind I do not think that they have ever put anyone off - other than being seen as a tad distasteful)
Reason 5) Entertainers come from a crack den/palace or otherwise. The fact you've kept crack in the game and not the whore aspect kind of lays the intention bare that you do not want to be seen as a game that might ever promote 'whoring' - in case you get labelled as a patriarchal systemic oppressor of the female individuation (or something) - What's better advertising for an admittedly small game like SS than bringing back the crack whores? As soon as the social justice types write about it, the modern right will too. If you ever wanted advertising for free, you could *pose* an email, claiming you are concerned about it to an SJW blogger or 10. (of course you'd delete this line first... with your admin powers :P)

Con:
Reason 1) If having crack whores as a commodity in the game would instantly dismiss the game from steam, then it would be bad to have them in the game.

Solution:
Bring back the whores. Bring back the filthy crack whores on those deep space stations. The con isn't necessarily a negative. Steam is not worth it. Nothing is worth compromising your integrity or even your appeal. How can you truly quantify the effect of having crack whores and how can you truly suggest that crack whores are not a reason that people do not stay in the game or even find it appealing at first?

There's nothing wrong with low brow humour and having in-jokes. And I'm not joking here. The only reason you might really want to crack down on crack whores is if the concept of trading them becomes genuinely illegal and you can become arrested and charged with fines and prison sentencing.

But if that happens, we've got far bigger problems than playing a game. All of us.

So let's bring back the crack whores.

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:45 am
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Post Re: What came of it
I found that there are three major sources of passive income.

1. Colonies. A solid galaxy can make upwards of 5b a day plus some measure of IC because colonies are a peasant source. You do get the benefit of being extremely efficient, so you can utilize a low DF galaxy where you don't get as many resources, and the state of said galaxy deters larger fish from contesting it. You also have no termite issues. The downside is that colonies are a real pain in the ass to do and nearly everyone finds them boring as fuck to set up and maintain.

2. Bulk IC. I make a ton of money on Bulk IC because no one else has the patience to wheel 50m IC around per trip. Some AI bases are supplied, but the majority are not *because* you have to manually sphere those Bulk IC around for hours upon end. And I do mean hours, last trip was 6-7 hours not including set up time.

3. Tiered IC. I also make a lot of money on this. This is the most competitive market. However, you cannot really enter it because of the ease of making fast and *stealthy* trade slaves that ship Tiered IC around. Killing those slaves are out of the question with Black Box Reports. Find out who kills your slaves, and mercilessly annihilate their space.

Normally, the Passive Income guys are supposed to buy stuff from the Active Income guys, but a lot of the PI guys also actively do content. And a LOT of them multi-client due to the nature of having large galaxy empires.

I don't want Active Income to completely supersede Passive Income, but I do agree that the amount of Active Income people make is pathetic.

Raise the bar so doing a DF200 dg nets something in the range of 200m raw credits, a DF300 500m, and DF400 1b.

Class Balance wise, Engineer (if you can grab the required drones) and Fleet Commander feel fucking fantastic. Everything else feels shit, gimped, and or propped up by artificial means.

People play those two class most often because:
1. Defensive Values. They don't die as often as every other class. They don't take huge risks when entering a new galaxy. If they get focus fired, they can stand their ground effectively.

2. Capacity. They can actually carry loot home. While a Berserker can have the offensive and defensive power to power through content, they can't actually carry loot home. So no one plays them and the few that exist are generally heavily pimped alts because Zerk is a great tank class. It's just a shitting solo class.

3. Damage Projection. They don't need to get into point blank range like Seer, SD, and Berserker to do their damage, and thus open up so much risk it's not funny.


Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:02 am
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Post Re: What came of it
Max235 wrote:
---


And here is what I believe is wrong with the development system.

We're CURRENTLY balancing and discussing, not on the basis of what constitutes 'fun' but on the basis of arbitrary suggestions that do not necessarily bring the game in line.

Releases are slow and nothing is particularly revolutionary. People see the carcass rotting and grow tired of it.

The reason for the survey was to find out who found this game boring. Who was tired of it. Who felt the devs had no direction.

People are tired of it, i'm going to use screenies from my conversation with Max earlier to demonstrate the difference in approach...

https://imgur.com/a/oCgRw

Let's say there are 600 subbed accounts right now. That's $6000 a month flooding into the game, plus, say, +$200 SP for ship skins or aug resets etc.

I would be surprised to see anyone develop full time an MMORPG with passion and significance for this pittance.

Players are being let down overall, yet still have, overall, faith that the game will still be here in 2-3 years time.

Will it? Will it really?

I know two significant players quit over the course of my time here, both owning many accounts. I know other significant players that are thinking of quitting. I also know that new people are NOT staying in the game.

That lovely cash money that motivates Jeff to keep the server up, enduring these meetings and discussing and deliberating regarding balance.

At what point does it become irrelevant, or more hassle than its worth?

Y'all are talking numbers when you should be talking about fun. This is the PREMISE of my very suggestion. So many people are just like "I'll quit if my friends quit" -

AND WHAT IF THEY DO?

The game will crumple. It's already a slow and painful death rattle that we're enduring RIGHT NOW.

And it will crumple. Things peter off from their success and then implode. There needs to be an almost revolutionary suggestion to

A) Stop you from losing your progress
B) Make you now enjoy the game you pay to play
C) Actually want others to come play this game.

and that's what I've offered here. The very premise of this is not a discussion of numbers per se, but more how said numbers can be reached through the search for fun and a meaningful and aesthetic gaming experience.

Yes, overhauls are displeasing, but are you telling me that if you had a sickness you wouldn't do everything you could to end it and get well again?

At what point did things go off the rails? You have the stats. You know why new players aren't joining. You just aren't approaching the solution in any feasible manner, if at all.

At what point do we say 'oh wait, this is bad, and it's not growing because of something we're doing wrong'?

And hell, even if the chemotherapy kills the game... at least there was an active attempt to try to fix it, rather than looking back and realizing that, oops, maybe you had your hands around the neck of the golden goose all this time, and maybe that something could have been done.

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:28 am
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Post Re: What came of it
Oh yea, I totaly agree with the crack whores/slaves thing.

The game should please the players, not the SJWs that will never play it.


Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:51 am
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Post Re: What came of it
"Whore" is a word that is mostly used by middle school boys. It's not edgy, it's just immature. If you can't tell the difference between the two, you have no basis for discussing the change. It is in fact part of the "in-joke" that Entertainers are obtained from Crack Houses.

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:06 am
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Post Re: What came of it
Regarding Tako's long post of recommendations, what you're suggesting would basically be a new game. For a dev team that has historically needed over a year even for a much smaller rebalance (e.g. classes, bases), this is very clearly not in the scope of what we can accomplish. That is not to detract from the skills and dedication of the team, but simply to be frank about what we can do.

Here's something we *are* considering, though, that I believe would address many of your concerns about itemization. You've talked about how the "best in slot" gear takes a lot of grinding to obtain, and how endgame content is balanced with respect to that gear. We are seriously considering a release cycle in which sources of endgame gear gradually become more generous. For example, UZ Emperor might end up dropping 1-3 loot items instead of just 1. Ancalagon the Black might start dropping 1 guaranteed item. Eventually, Bana King would as well. This would be a much less invasive way to intercede in the problem you have highlighted, which is that endgame gear providers currently require much too much grinding for folks who are not at the forefront of progression. I'm not claiming that it would tie everything up as nicely as what you've suggested, but it's something that we can actually do.

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:11 am
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Post Re: What came of it
yclepticon wrote:
Regarding Tako's long post of recommendations, what you're suggesting would basically be a new game. For a dev team that has historically needed over a year even for a much smaller rebalance (e.g. classes, bases), this is very clearly not in the scope of what we can accomplish. That is not to detract from the skills and dedication of the team, but simply to be frank about what we can do.

Here's something we *are* considering, though, that I believe would address many of your concerns about itemization. You've talked about how the "best in slot" gear takes a lot of grinding to obtain, and how endgame content is balanced with respect to that gear. We are seriously considering a release cycle in which sources of endgame gear gradually become more generous. For example, UZ Emperor might end up dropping 1-3 loot items instead of just 1. Ancalagon the Black might start dropping 1 guaranteed item. Eventually, Bana King would as well. This would be a much less invasive way to intercede in the problem you have highlighted, which is that endgame gear providers currently require much too much grinding for folks who are not at the forefront of progression. I'm not claiming that it would tie everything up as nicely as what you've suggested, but it's something that we can actually do.


And how do these changes fit into the MDA framework (which is the core of this suggestions thread) to make the game fun?

All it does is increase the submissive fun for short durations whilst the changes are pushed out. It doesn't greatly change the 'challenge' dimension, so the game remains stagnant.

Naturally, people are making 'challenge' changes, but they are rebutted above in obvious terms.

I had already considered giving people more items, but all this does is devalue the item and the iteration, except for short periods of time upon release (in which people will quickly adapt).

My solutions, one can say, are revolutionary in the sense that "SS will no longer be SS" - but it would become a game I and so many others wouldn't quit with so much ease. (and I have quit)

-------------------

Like I have said repeatedly to Churchill, and very kindly so, doing small change that doesn't create a large impact gives the community the idea that you have no idea what is going on, even if you perhaps do, or your change does in fact increase the potential for growth in the game.

-------------------

To finish, I have not suggested anything that wouldn't solve half of the problems that players deem a problem. It's true, I did suggest great big hacksaws which would drive at the erroneous additions to the game. But that just goes to show just how much of the game is indeed erroneous, rather than the fact that I'm saying cut off the fat and keep it lean and healthy.

-------------------

PS:
yclepticon wrote:
"Whore" is a word that is mostly used by middle school boys. It's not edgy, it's just immature. If you can't tell the difference between the two, you have no basis for discussing the change. It is in fact part of the "in-joke" that Entertainers are obtained from Crack Houses.


Middle school boys should be more than welcome in SS. I mean, they're the only reason you've got grown men playing the game right now.

On top of this, immaturity is a good thing to cater to, a lot more people out there who are looking to while away their time in meaningless endeavours (playing an MMORPG) are immature in their passtimes than are mature.

Just take a look at who and what's popular (or infamous and byproxy popular):

Jake Paul, Logan Paul, Pewdiepie, h3h3productions, iDubbbz, Filthy Frank, Hoberian memes, Rick and Morty, 4chan, Donald Trump, dick pics, "send nudes", Ellen Degeneres (and pretty much any Stand-up comedian you can think of), South Park,

Who in this list is not immature? (or what I'd call edgy)

I can understand why you might not want immature content, but all you're doing is closing the door on potential streams for growth.

https://donbryant.wordpress.com/2010/04 ... alvinists/

People don't want a basic and plain experience (because that's life), they want an integral, separated from life experience where they can enjoy all kinds of fun stuff and escape to the upper echelons of enjoyment.

-------------------

I said I'd finish up earlier but I thought of something else, it doesn't really matter if my suggestions are 'stopped' - I do appreciate that they were looked at and I appreciate the time you've been taking to read them, as it has taken time to write them.

I only write here because unfortunately I'm quite melancholic in how I approach the world and in temperament. http://temperaments.fighunter.com/?page=melancholic - and ultimately I see something that could be 50-500x the size of what it is now (with ease and a little bravery and work)

SS is fatty and bogged down, from Capital Ships to Bindomite and silly ship mods to the T22 content, it's out of breath and is actually losing the race for survival.

It's not extremely fun to play and it is a subsidiary activity to the community itself.

Quintessentially though - https://www.cs.northwestern.edu/~hunicke/MDA.pdf - is all I really should have thrown your way, since it is probably the rulebook you should use (alongside successful developers) in future decisions. Here's the link again https://www.cs.northwestern.edu/~hunicke/MDA.pdf - and again https://www.cs.northwestern.edu/~hunicke/MDA.pdf (just in case)

PS (2): The restructuring could be done in a very short time frame and done manually, by hand, by stripping the fat off the game's mechanics and working from there. Erasing those design flaws that HAUNT your balance decisions. Mods aren't broken in their current form, mods are broken in their NATURE - we already had an avenue for how players 'power up' and this was by equipping gear, now we've changed this by a massive variant by introducing something which is INSANE which requires either INSANE LUCK or exploitation.

What's easier to balance, Chess or Star Sonata? And what's more fun and balanced? (note: Chess is favouring White, but SS always has a irreconcilable flavour of the month (well, several months before anything is done) and at least Black can still win) - Good luck playing Shield Monkey right now, or Engi post rework (if the rework isn't horrendously OP and is what I strongly believe it will be (utterly mediocre)) - And you'll be wishing, no, begging for that 44% (48% in Blitz) Black Winrate.

My suggestion (of compression) just indicated that you trim out the mechanics that did the small boosts and made the upgrades themselves, by their nature, into small boosts. Because SS power multiplies exponentially you do not change the game's inner workings but the game's nature. You don't need massive power spikes for the power spikes to feel massive. All massive power spikes do is banish all previous content to the state of irrelevance.

And to some degree you understand this, intimately, but by not reducing the quantity by which these numbers are introduced to the game you have:
* (+40%, +70%, +35%, +12%, +60%, +30000) * (12%+10%) = REALLY HARD TO BALANCE (because it STANDS OUT FAR MORE BECAUSE OF ITS CRAZY MULTIPLICATION)
rather than
* (+4%, +5%, +2%, +1%, +3%, +7350) * (2%+1%) (which is so much easier to tweak the numbers on should something become OP, and if something is OP it will never be AS OP as something that is as ridiculous as the current system of what is above us)

The mistake here is thinking that the second set of numbers would be a different game in anything other than the enjoyment gained by playing it, and the feeling of fairness throughout. You wouldn't feel utterly crippled for making bad decisions and you wouldn't feel stupidly rewarded for making the best decisions in the sense that content now becomes too easy. It's a fairer playing field (and would require far less development time when doing balance changes)

But hey, it really is your game and not mine.

As stated above, I'm a worrier in how I approach things, so naturally I see the worst possible future and then strive to perfection in how to avoid it.

The math sections are used for example basis -- (2%+1%) would actually be (102%+1%) or a division by (1.02+0.01) and do not correlate to the exact math you use in the game, I hope I am not brought up on this (though this concern is why this was written) -

----------------------

As someone who's now un-subbed I suppose I don't have much stake in this game anymore.

I once again thank you for your time in reading this.

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:11 pm
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Post Re: What came of it
As I told you, making massive upheavals for the sake of massive upheavals ...you might as well make an entirely new entity with a different name.

Making the UK (to use the country you live in) drive on the right side of the road, use "Z" instead of "S" in most of those words, delete your "U's" in stuff like colour, uses a Green, Black, and Yellow flag, speaks French, uses an absolute monarchy, uses Daylight Savings Time, is Hindu, writes in Spanish, prefers Lamb over Beef and Pork (no Chicken), Parrots are the most common pet choice, uses cobblestone roads exclusively, and finally, purple ink only.

And make these changes within 2 months.

I told you, the main problems are:

->Passive Income too much
->Passive gameplay too prevalent
->Most classes short on hull or short on firepower
->Some classes have too much firepower or too much tank
->Mobility and Regeneration are heavily weighted
->Sandbox choice is actually sandbox pigeonhole
->Enemies are both too tanky and too hard hitting
->Too much emphasis on healing over individual defense
->Limited gear choice creates giant power jumps
->Generic DG loot feels worthless to use
->Giant item and credit sinks for commonplace style items (KD)

Fix those things without making it look like a nerf in any way shape or form and almost all of the complaints will go away. I'm purposely ignoring bases and bvb changes.

Your proposals all started with "Nerf all dat", Tako. Every last one of them. That's how I see it and I'm generally more understanding than the average player. I don't care if you say "It's a compression of all the game's stats!". It looks like a fucking nerf. A nerf is a punishment. A lot of players are unhappy.

And you want to *nerf* all the unhappy players?

No.

That is a bad move for every single organization on the planet. Starving peasant players? Let them eat cake. That's what you're telling us.


Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:18 pm
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Post Re: What came of it
yclepticon wrote:
Here's something we *are* considering, though, that I believe would address many of your concerns about itemization. You've talked about how the "best in slot" gear takes a lot of grinding to obtain, and how endgame content is balanced with respect to that gear. We are seriously considering a release cycle in which sources of endgame gear gradually become more generous. For example, UZ Emperor might end up dropping 1-3 loot items instead of just 1. Ancalagon the Black might start dropping 1 guaranteed item. Eventually, Bana King would as well. This would be a much less invasive way to intercede in the problem you have highlighted, which is that endgame gear providers currently require much too much grinding for folks who are not at the forefront of progression. I'm not claiming that it would tie everything up as nicely as what you've suggested, but it's something that we can actually do.


Here's an unpopular opinion (and funnily enough it was in one of my answers to the survey), I think bosses like Ancalagon the Black, Timotheus the Red and Bana King whose loot is responsible for some of the most extreme imbalances in the game and the most insane increases in power, should be completely removed. I'm referring of course to Augs like the Nightfury's Anger and the range of Augs from Bana King. The power gap from some of those is utterly absurd. The same could have been said for the original Nightfury Burst but it was fixed (somewhat). However noble the idea of having bosses that are designed for the endgame of a tech level, the decision to give their loot the power that they have was utter madness. With the ever decline of the playerbase and more players switching to mass MCing, it's not difficult to spot how you'll end up with ludicrous results.

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Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:52 am
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Post Re: What came of it
Max235 wrote:
And you want to *nerf* all the unhappy players?


Actually I want to buff their experience in every single possible way by removing things that are so good that you don't need anything else. This isn't a feelgood. It is ostensibly a feel-bad.

Currently for Star Sonata the sun shines in Black and White.

I wish to reintegrate some colour, challenge and most importantly fun.

You're stricken with entrepreneurial terror, Max.

Tomzta09 wrote:
Here's an unpopular opinion (and funnily enough it was in one of my answers to the survey), I think bosses like Ancalagon the Black, Timotheus the Red and Bana King whose loot is responsible for some of the most extreme imbalances in the game and the most insane increases in power, should be completely removed. I'm referring of course to Augs like the Nightfury's Anger and the range of Augs from Bana King. The power gap from some of those is utterly absurd. The same could have been said for the original Nightfury Burst but it was fixed (somewhat). However noble the idea of having bosses that are designed for the endgame of a tech level, the decision to give their loot the power that they have was utter madness. With the ever decline of the playerbase and more players switching to mass MCing, it's not difficult to spot how you'll end up with ludicrous results.


Yes, Power scaling is a massive problem. If you (which is the likely conclusion of t23) release content that is equivalent to it (or only slightly more powerful), it is only satisfying to a mediocre degree and you have set your own limit for how far players can go. So content must be balanced around it because of how unfair certain items are and the exponential multipliers of said items.

The best way to solve it is to come down like brute force and draw everything in line.

It'll hurt a bit until players realise the game is fun and enticing again.

Like the jab of a needle when people go in to vaccinate diseases.

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Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:23 am
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Post Re: What came of it
Going from 540k shield bank to 150k shield bank looks like a nerf to me.


Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:38 am
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Post Re: What came of it
Tomzta09 wrote:
yclepticon wrote:
Here's something we *are* considering, though, that I believe would address many of your concerns about itemization. You've talked about how the "best in slot" gear takes a lot of grinding to obtain, and how endgame content is balanced with respect to that gear. We are seriously considering a release cycle in which sources of endgame gear gradually become more generous. For example, UZ Emperor might end up dropping 1-3 loot items instead of just 1. Ancalagon the Black might start dropping 1 guaranteed item. Eventually, Bana King would as well. This would be a much less invasive way to intercede in the problem you have highlighted, which is that endgame gear providers currently require much too much grinding for folks who are not at the forefront of progression. I'm not claiming that it would tie everything up as nicely as what you've suggested, but it's something that we can actually do.


Here's an unpopular opinion (and funnily enough it was in one of my answers to the survey), I think bosses like Ancalagon the Black, Timotheus the Red and Bana King whose loot is responsible for some of the most extreme imbalances in the game and the most insane increases in power, should be completely removed. I'm referring of course to Augs like the Nightfury's Anger and the range of Augs from Bana King. The power gap from some of those is utterly absurd. The same could have been said for the original Nightfury Burst but it was fixed (somewhat). However noble the idea of having bosses that are designed for the endgame of a tech level, the decision to give their loot the power that they have was utter madness. With the ever decline of the playerbase and more players switching to mass MCing, it's not difficult to spot how you'll end up with ludicrous results.


100% agreed, but it's not going to happen.

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Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:09 pm
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