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Post Demanding Changes to Certain Classes
Star Sonata is a MMO. In our MMO, content is generally centralized around killing progressively more tanky and gradually more damaging AI as DF increases. Player capabilities are supposed to scale up as they increase their level and itemization.

Different classes, as we all know, have their strengths and weaknesses.

My problem specifically is the lack of ability for certain classes to SOLO content and DG efficiently as others. ( or even relatively as efficiently.)

Let's cut to the chase: It is basically laughable to try and DG as one of the following classes in the order from Worst to most manageable. 1. Seer, 2. Speed Demon, 3. Zerker, 4. SHM.

Unless compromising by doing significantly lower DF DG's, or investing a minimum of 30-50% more time comparatively to other classes at the same level, these classes specifically are very underwhelming in their ability to solo DG, if at all.

Now I know what you're about to say.. "My shm can solo nearly anything! My seer is easilly able to solo df 300 depending on vis! My zerk doesnt even take damage anymore! blah blah blah.

Yes, at what cost though? 100+b ship and 300b-800b+ in augs?

Well let's debate this rationally; The following is what I ask you:
In terms of cost effectiveness, can your Seer.. SD.. SHM.. or Zerk achieve the same
amount of efficiency as other classes?

I'll offer you an example:

I have a level 3k seer and 1.2k DM.

Now, my DM has 1 offensive mast, 2 gen ops mast as its setup on an Astro. all t20 or less gear mind you.
This DM can clear most df 250 DG's in about 6-10 minutes.

My seer has all t22 skills, maxed Zen skills, Min-Max'd super intel/evil/angelic t22 gear, 2 AoS, 1 War Chant of ares ( was reworked so yes it's viable now) and a CoH+.
In order for my seer to survive or clear a df 250 dg, the following are a requirement.

1. Low shield bank AI that don't insta-burst him or out regen.
2. Low vis suns consistently throughout the DG.
3. Immense time investment
4. Bosses that don't out regen burst or whom shut down the
seer.

There are more factors but these are the most important.
It takes my seer about 10 - 15 minutes to Clear the very same DG on a good day.

This.. Is a lethal problem to SS and notably a reason why New players decide to ultimately LEAVE.

Why can a 10b total setup DM ( ship augs and drones )
Out DG and out Clear and out utility a 500b+ setup Seer???

In terms of relative progression, it's suicide!
Who have you ever known to first pick a Seer or Zerk as a Main and actually get ANYWHERE past t20 without relying on a team or alts? No one.

Is it possible? Maybe. Maybe with five to ten times the time investment, twice the PvE mechanical Skill, meticulously careful planning in terms of DG choice and scouting.

This is why new players leave. They play assassins or support classes.. Maybe the dedicated tank or a Hit and run class in other MMO's and come to ours, see a fantastic concept that's reasonably executed just to be absolutely let down by how impossibly hard it is to progress as their chosen class.

Why should a FC get all t20 skills and be able to capture some Biggers or some icepicks, clear 300+ df dg's in 4-7 minutes, with literally a ship, some st bernard fighters, and 2 FC masts? They shouldn't. Or maybe, just maybe.. FC is absolutely fine.

Maybe Sniper can solo content and fit's its concept perfectly without little to no problems.

Maybe DM is limited by it's ability to micro and protect their drones to outlast and out command their opponents, which I feel is perfectly fine.

MAYBE.. Just maybe, Gunner is fine balance wise considering it has limited resources and can't sustain very well/ has to regen between levels in DG's.

Maybe the real question is.. Why cant my class do the same thing? Why cant my class do Half of what a Sniper or FC can do?

Why do I, as a seer, have to carry an ares sapper as a mandatory requirement to clear dg's while I already hardly have the space to fit everything in my hull ?

Well, the short answer is, we shouldn't have to.

What I propose to be changed is this:

1. All DG's will from this point on not have Visibility affecting variables. (Suns obviously, or auras, or any sort of vis affecting indestructible object.) Keep in mind cosmetic suns are fine as well as shield draining suns. Just not visibility affecting.

2. The aforementioned classes need MORE survivability or less dependence on others to solo content. This game first and foremost is a MMO, Not a Multi-Client Simulator.

3. INCREASE HULL SPACE PERCENTAGE for Recon Focus!!!

Why??
Why do DM's or Fc's.. Classes that do more consistent DPS, have several more layers of survivability, and multiple times the range of LF's as well as more utility.. also gain the ability to carry 3x their existing setups in free hull space on their ships?
IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

LF Players cannot DG with 100 - 200 free hull space. Who want's to Micro a combat slave they COULD use to combat, for literally just utility and hull space alone?
Why get a Loot Payload and sacrifice a super item slot to literally just have less than half the free space of other classes temporarily?
The answer is they shouldn't have to.

4. DG's as a whole should be reevaluated and a Dev meeting should take place to decide what needs to stay and what should go. Every class Should be able to solo DG without spending 4 times as much of our precious time to achieve the same as other classes and get rewarded for it. That is, if these classes are even able to solo the DG in their level relative DG DF in the first place.

5. Zerkers could use Passive lifesteal, and some more speed. Tone down resists a little bit and adjust Uber damage down a little more accordingly. This would allow zerker to have active and passive lifesteal to be something more than just a meat shield, as well as allow zerk to more consistently survive.

5.A -
Also: Experimental perhaps, but why not implement a system opposite of the snipers or gunners analysis for zerker?
The longer said zerker has been in combat, increase lifesteal and resists accordingly!!
30 sec to 1 minute cap. Place about 20% current passive resists into this! Allows for classes like sd or Seer to stand a chance against zerk as well. Burst them before their in combat.

6. Seer shield increase.
Come on. You force a class to basically utilize all 4 aug slots to do relatively decent dps or burst, just to have them be one shot by literally everything on their relative level?

Just give them 50% more shield since they have to get CLOSER than any other class in the game! It's ridiculous to have to try and backstab in a high vis gal and hope to god the brand new Nanite device does it's job. ( yes this class is essentially relying on a super right now to even be viable.)

7. Seer Nanite version 2
Speaking of the nanite, why not have the opposite effect for a new super item?
This is what I mean.

Seer's (insert name here)
+30% speed, - 20% seer's resists ( yes, lower resists.), -50% visibility, -70%
Selected Target's speed, -35% targets damage.
Record 1.75 times the damage the player does during a 5-7 second duration to be
done over as a DoT instead of an instantaneous burst.

This would allow for MUCH more reaction time by players. It would be beneficial against AI and allow seer to actually do something.

8. LF's should have more super item slots. Idk why but Lf's have the lowest utility in game and are furthermore punished by having no slots to correct the already terrible base utility they do have.

9. SHM. I don't know much about SHM other than they can't do much without slaves at all other than support others. Just add some sort of direct fire transference that debuffs enemies and steals health from them.
Also add some offensive supers. Every class needs a few more supers for variety.

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Tue May 15, 2018 11:38 am
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Post Re: Demanding Changes to Certain Classes
you're bad. you use cookie cutter builds and obviously are missing the point that playing light fighters is going to be naturally harder. all those classes are fine, with even speed demon and seer being maybe too strong. if you struggle that much with recon classes, maybe they arent for you, but right now there are alot of players in lfs that can get by solo. most new players ive seen always default to fleet commander because they like the aspect of having a fleet and that's cool. and then i guess 2nd best is engineer because they want to play a class that makes them sound smart.

talk to anyone who plays recon and they'll tell you all the tricks they've used to get around limitations of the class.


Tue May 15, 2018 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Demanding Changes to Certain Classes
I have taken your post very seriously logan, while I cannot speak to exactly everything you've said, I can tell you that your summary points at the bottom of the post are very much in line with my own opinions and I've brought them up to the rest of the development team. I can't say anything further than that, but we have heard you and plan on doing some things to address those pain points.

Specifically, in regards to hullspace we intend to add Cargo Slots that allow all classes to scoop loot no matter what. We are also thinking about altering the survivability curve of the classes so that the disparity is not as massive as it currently is between classes. Berserker and Shield Monkey have been identified as classes that will need some serious love going forward, and I'm happy to let you know that we will seriously think about their options in both squad play and solo play.

That's about as much as I can share right now.

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Wed May 16, 2018 6:52 am
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Team: Commonwealth
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:05 pm
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Post Re: Demanding Changes to Certain Classes
Thank you very much! I feel some of these matters are long overdue so it's fantastic to have these problems get some more acknowledgement. I look forward to seeing what's being worked on behind the scenes as well!

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Wed May 16, 2018 1:57 pm
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Post Re: Demanding Changes to Certain Classes
Normally I dont post but you make a few good suggestions armos.
my 5 cents: I've always felt like having dual aug setups would be healthy for the game. for scenarios such(DGing as Seer) as this where sustainability, hullspace, and durability are more important than upfront dps. Another fun thing to do is experimenting with new setups without sacrificing your primary augs.

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anilv wrote:
Antilzah wrote:
But Scyron also said Bad at Games class is pretty good at group content.


We can code an exception for BaG. I'll let Jey know.


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Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:08 am
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:15 am
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Post Re: Demanding Changes to Certain Classes
I wager one of the bigger issues plaguing SS is how the game is expecting you to play, and how you actually need to play to play the game effectively.

Another is loot space, which there are plenty of detractors out there that don't want Recon or Combat classes to scoop.

And finally the sheer cost of transitioning from a dging setup to a squad setup. There are two classes that don't need a second ship for squad content, and coincidentally they are the two most popular classes by a ridiculous margin.


Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:27 am
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