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Team: Deep Space Federation
Rank: Councilor
Main: Rendghast
Level: 1582

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:47 am
Posts: 508
Post DG notes and their nessecity
SO, as the opponents in my inflation threads have been reduced to Arguing from Incredulity, my position stands. The current system of DG drops relies to much on RN Geesus to produce a stable market. Large well funded actors will always be able to manipulate prices because specific commodities cannot be targeted for supply if their price starts moving.

In any other game this would not be a problem. If the price of a specific item starts moving in another MMO, and i do not like that, i can simply hit one or two specific dungeons until i have enough of the items to shift the price back and put them up for sale. I have already done this with things like CYborgs and Gravity Controllers in SS2, back when i first joined these sold for 1 million each, making the price of a terraforming project exceed the revenue any colony on EF would possibly generate. I built a few million of them and the price has never returned to those levels.

The problem with most gear is that it is impossible to farm consistently. You cannot simply go to 4 or 5 DG, hit them over and over for an afternoon, and end up with 50 Lacerating Petals. The tables do not work that way. The project that was supposed to fix this has apparently been sidelined indefinitely. So, since my last proposal is now on indefinite suspencion. i propose something new, or rather old.

Add a DG notes Alt Currency shop. No, this will not be JYSN again, i am now done with that. The principles of this shop are as follows.

1) The shop Uses alt currency and alt currency only, nothing in the shop is available for credits.
2) The alt currency can ONLY be gotten by selling DG items to the shop.
3) Ever item that can come out of a DG is in the shop. For purchase and sale.
4) the Price of buying any item from the shop is always 3 to 5 times the sale price. SO if a Petals cost 15 notes to buy from the shop, selling it to the shop is 3 to 5 notes. Dumping items into the shop is ALWAYS a loosing proposition unless someone is GROSSLY manipulating prices.
5) Note cost of items is equal to their tech level, their sale price is adjusted for rarity. This is always rounded DOWN. So a green tier item tech 15 is 15/4 rounded down 3 notes.
6) no Mentions or Diplomas BPs would be included, nor any other item traded for any other form of Alt Currency

Post thought, DG items that build other DG item (Dem Frags) would be priced at half the build cost of the item built so it is always cheaper to just build them.

This proposal would allow players to stabilize supply in a market where a large actor is manipulating it. It would MASSIVELY increase DG raiding, as you would functionally need to get 5 or even ten other items to by the one item you wanted. It would limit the increases in prices we have seen by allowing large stocks of trash to be converted into useful items. But the price stabilization is far and away the most important point here. Having two or three people able to manipulate prices for all actors is bad in markets anywhere.

You have now had a player flatly admit they can manipulate prices anywhere from 16 million to 1 billion at whim. THis is going to be a HUGE problem if you want the player population to grow. The problem of over reliance on RNG to fuel drops should have been addressed years ago, it is now on the verge of crippling all new player recruitment.

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Wed May 22, 2019 4:14 pm
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Team: Spaghetti-O's
Rank: Operator
Main: iwnh011
Level: 1228

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:07 pm
Posts: 176
Post Re: DG notes and their nessecity
For anyone unfortunate enough to click on this thread, here's a kitten.

I wish you a speedy recovery.

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Wed May 22, 2019 5:03 pm
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Team: Commonwealth
Rank: Operator
Main: Cloud4481
Level: 3097

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 7
Post Re: DG notes and their nessecity
I think the details would need to be ironed out quite a bit.
I fully support either way more ways for especially new players to bring value to the game. Especially more ways for them to get items that they need without having to spend alot of credits to get it. The idea of turning in alot of junk items to get one useful item is definitely something I have thought of that could benefit this game.
This idea could go a ways to allow new players to get off the grand, as it is getting increasingly harder for them to make any amount of credit in this game as it stands right now. What we need is definitely more ways to earn what you need, either through dging to get the items to turn into this DG Notes you speak of or some other method.


Sun May 26, 2019 12:04 pm
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Team: Ungers Energy Augs
Rank: Director
Main: Tako
Level: 4426

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:28 am
Posts: 62
Post Re: DG notes and their nessecity
we have dg notes, they're called items and credits. they are given to you upon completion of the dg boss and scoop


Sun May 26, 2019 2:28 pm
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Team: Ungers Energy Augs
Rank: Director
Main: Tako
Level: 4426

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:28 am
Posts: 62
Post Re: DG notes and their nessecity
i'd just like to add that singles pretty much disproves any point rendghast may ever try to make because the idea that people cannot be self sufficient and successful is bunk


Sun May 26, 2019 2:47 pm
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Team: Commonwealth
Rank: Operator
Main: Cloud4481
Level: 3097

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 7
Post Re: DG notes and their nessecity
nc44 wrote:
i'd just like to add that singles pretty much disproves any point rendghast may ever try to make because the idea that people cannot be self sufficient and successful is bunk

Im not going to disagree on that fact. I am concerned though that far too much success of the player depends on the current state of market.
The points of concern have been raised in other threads, namely that lower dg give items that have value that is currently dropping.
Again this means far more, grinding, which don't get my wrong I don't have anything against putting in work to accomplish something.
Infact I believe this should be central to player accomplishing things in this game.
My concern is again, its depending so heavily on the current state of the market.
In other words, if the value of said items continues to drop.
I player can do as you suggest, continue to do as you suggested but not at the end of the day get much in return.
This in my mind breaks the whole concept that you put in lets say X amount of time and get some value in return for how much you put in.
nc44 wrote:
we have dg notes, they're called items and credits. they are given to you upon completion of the dg boss and scoop

True, however I still stand by the belief that there should exist other ways to accomplish things in this game that doesn't depend so heavily on credits.


Mon May 27, 2019 2:36 pm
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Team: Ungers Energy Augs
Rank: Director
Main: Tako
Level: 4426

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:28 am
Posts: 62
Post Re: DG notes and their nessecity
jared4481 wrote:
Im not going to disagree on that fact. I am concerned though that far too much success of the player depends on the current state of market.


How so? The market is a short-cut answer to a lack in the player's own current capacity to bypass problems which other players can, instead, solve for them - this exchange is mediated by a mutual capacity called credits.

Player A: I cannot solve this Rubix cube, it is driving me nuts.
Player B: I'll do it for you, so you can progress, but here's what the time and knowledge is worth to me.

jared4481 wrote:
The points of concern have been raised in other threads, namely that lower dg give items that have value that is currently dropping.


My chief complaint regarding lower level dgs is that small station token crates (of 10) and large station token crates (of 20) are not in the droptable, and this has not been raised by anybody yet - because nobody else has thought to raise it. They used to drop convotronic II's, and perhaps the change to tokens was to discourage people farming low level DGs for convotronic IIs, but all it has done is devalued these DGs.

However, stuff like Burning Petals has a staple price of about 2b to sell to a player instantly right now, or Lacerating - which are all low level DGs. Things like Liposuctions are sitting at 2b, and they drop both in DGs and off roaming Rosemaries. I firmly believe that there are ways for lower levelled players to exploit the DG system as it stands right now, and that there will be in the future. I would like to see this Token Crate change, whatever the case.

jared4481 wrote:
Again this means far more, grinding, which; don't get me wrong - I don't have anything against putting in work to accomplish something. Infact I believe this should be central to player accomplishing things in this game.


Everyone enjoys a meaningful grind, and better yet, everyone enjoys a varied farming experience. Why do you think the human brain is excited by bindomite, lootboxes, and other such things; it is because not only is there a chance for hero, but there is always an opportunity for zero. People are masochistic to some degree, we have to be, to endure the suffering that is life itself. We use the occasional good as the eternal tampon for the everlasting bad. We need to be told "no" - by the world, by the universe - we are designed to cope with things that are not necessarily fair, arbitrary or just.

Sometimes we react through optimism, "damn this loot sucked" and go onto the next DG. Sometimes we react through cynicism "alright that's it for me today". Sometimes we don't even look at the loot because we feel it's disappointing anyway in the hopes that we might be pleasantly surprised later. But over and through all this, we are thrilled by the prospect of the golden goose, the imperial chests and so on; we think we want what is only natural to want; the best and most consistent answer every time; we think that we actually want to get something consistent, measurable and stable - but this is not the case.

My point is that if the scrapnotes, foodstamps or whatever are meaningful, then the DG itself is done for this then the DG is no longer a DG. The items themselves must have meaning, and if none, then the scrap value is rock bottom.

We must also take into consideration that things such as subspace, jungle, mira and capital ships have negatively influenced the relevance of tech 1-20 items which further belittles what used to be a creative experience of forming together DG loot to make a character powerful enough to level. So if you want to know who has harmed DGs the most, it is the levelling zones. It is the "free" 1-250 or 1-3000 for p2p.

jared4481 wrote:
however I still stand by the belief that there should exist other ways to accomplish things in this game that doesn't depend so heavily on credits.


There are, going out and doing the items manually, check the Rubix cube example above.


Mon May 27, 2019 5:03 pm
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