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Post The direction of Berzerker Rework.
TLDR: Now, before i begin, I am going to make a challege to those who wish to say i am wrong here.

Go onto your zerker, and show me one single build, you are using right now, not one you made to disprove me, one you have in your hanger and are using, that has NO ELEC TEMPERING AUGMENTERS AT ALL.

Now, this is addressed to Enklin and Jeff, as well as the other devmin. Everyone is aware that a broad class rework is currently being considered, and that zerker is desperately in need of something. HOber has proposed a 200% increase in damage for the class. However, i think there is a more important change that needs to be made. First, Let us understand the problem.

Now i am going to say something radical here, and i need people to read it a couple of times so they understand it clearly.

The reason zerker feels so weak is that it is functionally a 2 aug heavy fighter.

Now read that again and think.

Every zerker build i have seen has at least one electrical Tempering Augmenter on it. Out of 1100 augmenters in the game, only 50 or so have elc tempering on them. Only 15 or 20 over tech 20 do. This means that every single zerker build at a given level is FORCED to use the same one or two augmenters. This is, for all practical purposes, the same as having the same built in mod stats on every single ship and only two available aug slots. This lack of versatility is what is crippling zerker. The idea of a Two Vulture Frenzy, or even a Lunarian Barrage Defender setup is impossible because you cannot build a zerker at any level without at least 30% ET.

Now, let us look at other classes. Sniper (who has a ROF DECREASE) has 50% ET in its zen skills. Speed demon has 22% elec tempering, Gunner Has death blossom giving it 2 to 8 additional bolts for no additional elec consumption.

Thus zerker, with its +200% Multifire and no Tempering had the worst consumption in the game, coupled to the lack of tempering on augmenters, withers.

Certain peoples solution is to add 200% damage to zerkers core stats. But this will not in any way change that zerker has to burn one, two, or three augmenters on tempering simply to function. Defender Vazuk Lunarian is no more viable then before, much less Perilous Double Frenzy. It is patiently obvios that what zerker needs to flower, to blossom as a class is the same Tempering every other class has.

Now, as i have said before SPeed demon has 122% ROF increase and 22% Tempering. This is about a 5 to 1 ratio of consume to temp, so i will go with that. Zerker has (baseline) a 200% increase in elec consumption So i feel a 40% increase in tempering is warranted. However, this might be seen as to excessive by many devmin, so i would like to tone that down.

So, the proposal is 200% increase in Damage, i will take this i as my starting position. I will be using the ratios of the Basic Normal Augs for ratios where possible.

My first counter is simple. 150% damage, 30% Tempering, 60% elec. This loadout negates one of the tempering augmenters as well as offset the loss of radioactive mod stacking from the mod rework. The impact here is obvious, increasing the sustainability of the existing stat line allows zerkers broad new options for aug loadouts

The second idea is more conservative. 150% damage, 30% tempering, 60% shielding. This limits the elec regen of the base stats while allowing builds to skirt some shielding when choosing aug loadouts.

Third is an even larger compromise. 150% damage, 20% tempering, 45% elec and 45% shielding. This, while more limited then the previous setup, does give more versatility then the simple 200% damage, would likely still require the use of a tempering aug on all setup, though not a full 30% or higher normally seen.

The last proposal is, i feel, more balanced. 120% damage, 30% tempering, 60% elec, 90% Shielding. This, while having less direct damage, allows zerkers to aug for more ROF and other stats why having the defenses and sustain not to worry over much about that handful of tempering augs.

The issue with zerker is not a simple lack of damage, though it most certainly feels that way. this issue is that the 3rd aug slot is restricted to a staggeringly narrow number of augs due to zerkers elec consumption requirements. The solution is to correct the elec consumption, free the third aug slot and allowing zerkers a wider range of setups.

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Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:14 pm
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Post Re: The direction of Berzerker Rework.
Sniper gets +50% Electric Tempering (Which means it uses more electricity per shot), btw.

Gunner gets -20% electric tempering in a Capital Ship, mainly because it's limited to 2 augmenters.

I also think you probably should be careful about trying to offer insight into end game augmenter setups when you are not end game. There are actually quite a few reasons why people do not use the builds you propose, and many of those reasons are kind of complicated. I'm not sure just slapping on -Electric Tempering is the solution, but maybe you're right. Maybe some of the biggest -Electric Tempering augmods on certain augmenters that Berserkers use should be reduced and rolled into the class itself in some way.

Something to keep in mind is that Berserker's are, when you look at the bonuses the class gets, intended to come into combat situations with a large energy bank and dump that energy into something by converting it into damage. A higher %Damage bonus makes them better able to do that.

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Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:05 pm
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Post Re: The direction of Berzerker Rework.
MasterTrader wrote:
Something to keep in mind is that Berserker's are, when you look at the bonuses the class gets, intended to come into combat situations with a large energy bank and dump that energy into something by converting it into damage.


I disagree with this strongly. IF zerker where intended to do this they would have STUPID levels of Electrical, so they can regen their huge bank quickly for the next fight. Zerker has NO inbuilt elecrical whatsoever.

MasterTrader wrote:
I'm not sure just slapping on -Electric Tempering is the solution, but maybe you're right. Maybe some of the biggest -Electric Tempering augmods on certain augmenters that Berserkers use should be reduced and rolled into the class itself in some way.


That solves literally nothing. If you still require 40% elec to function as a build, and half of it was on class and half on an aug, you are still FORCED to use the aug to function. So we are back to the same problem as before. The only thing this does is punish non zerkers who might need a wattage at 40% and now do not have one.

What part of "Zerkers problem is lack of alternative loadouts" do you not understand hober?

MasterTrader wrote:
There are actually quite a few reasons why people do not use the builds you propose, and many of those reasons are kind of complicated.
Explain them anyway please.

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Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:17 am
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Post Re: The direction of Berzerker Rework.
My take from your post:

You start by claiming that all zerk builds have -elec temp augs on them.

I got -elec temp aug(s) on my sniper, zerker, gunner, seer and SD. I don't have it on an FC, Engi or Shmonk. So that point doesn't prove anything.

Then you go on about how zerks get less efficient DPS modifiers than other classes. Well, they get other bonuses. I'd have to put on a lot more resist augs on my Sniper if I wanted to tank like a zerk. So a zerk might have to put on a lot more -elec temp augs to have the sustained DPS my sniper has.


Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:42 am
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Post Re: The direction of Berzerker Rework.
My travel ship on my zerk got 0 elec temp, it's a setup and I'm using it to go to places with it.
I also got a DF on it to drop drones at uni reset.

Did I win?

As for what you really want. DPE on zerks isn't a problem. There are enough augs that give you -elec temp for a reason. Several -elec temp augs also give good DPS/tank/aggro hold.

Here some augs that give -elec temp and some DPS/tanking/aggro hold:
Sivar's (DPS)
(D)Watt (little DPS and tanking, but huge DPE)
Ohm (tanking, DPS)
Selenite (tanking, DPS)
Mastery (tanking, aggro hold)
(U)AoD (same as mastery, just better)
Emp (all round a good aug)
Tarkin's (tank, aggro grab)

For (U)AoD, (D)Watt and Ohm aug you only need 1 dedicated DPE aug. Rest can be DPS/tank/aggro based. The other augs MIGHT need some other DPE based aug depending on what you want with your zerk.

Also, good zerks do have some radio gear (weapons), high regen energy bank (AZOE (I had a OC one on my old zerk, barely fit it in), dark cage (might not be useful because low bank), FotG, Fission pack). Zerk always been a class you need to think a lot about of how you want it to work, what you need and testing around before you make your final setup.

Those 10 augs are more then enough to build a good zerk setup with like everyone have done since ever. You just need to look at what works with what. You claim that
Quote:
This means that every single zerker build at a given level is FORCED to use the same one or two augmenters

I am sure that all 10 of those augs are used in (semi) end-game setups (be it t20, t20 or t22). I myself am using a Dwatt on my AWC zerk (Does almost the same DPS as your average endgame t22 zerk), just lacks shieldbank and weaponslots. (U)AoD, emp and selenite are also used a lot all around of what I seen, Tarkin's less used to be a must just around when t22 came out.

TL;DR:
Yes, zerks do need -elec temp augs, but there are more then enough options in t20+ for any budget (if you can't afford a zerk mastery you can't afford a normal zerk ship). Think about your setup before you do anything with a zerk.

As for your proposal with zerk class changes, they aren't bad. Not balanced (nor is the +200% damage), but the idea is good and I like it.

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Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:17 am
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Post Re: The direction of Berzerker Rework.
its ok it just means you need 3rd account for engi to follow you round :roll:
not being able to power has always been the worst user experience, half of your SS career is about getting power! (literally)


Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:41 pm
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