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Post the new space race - US boosts NASA funding by 250m
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/ ... 00157.html

/discuss

EDIT: http://www.iflscience.com/space/250-mil ... -next-year


Last edited by landswimmer on Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sun May 18, 2014 6:33 am
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Post Re: the new space race
Seems logical that they are finally planning to replace the satellites that went out of service in the 90s. If they actually get into lunar and deep space missions that'll be interesting.

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Sun May 18, 2014 6:53 am
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Post Re: the new space race
Bout time we had some long term investment in some multi-generational planning. Resources and really long term planning is being hamstrung by electoral and budgeting cycles.

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Mon May 19, 2014 7:29 am
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Post Re: the new space race
anilv wrote:
Seems logical that they are finally planning to replace the satellites that went out of service in the 90s. If they actually get into lunar and deep space missions that'll be interesting.


i see it more as a break from "cooperative space exploration" and a return to "competitive space exploration", of the same kind that motivated the moon landings.

once russia accomplishes something significant (I.E. returning humans to the moon) the race will be on, and it wont stop until one nation/alliance controls the entire solar system and all its resources. the cost of spaceflight in the last decade has plummeted and it continues to fall, growth in the space industry will be exponential within a decade. its not a matter of "if", its a matter of "when".

Makka wrote:
Bout time we had some long term investment in some multi-generational planning. Resources and really long term planning is being hamstrung by electoral and budgeting cycles.


its strategic. whoever controls the moon and near earth asteroids will have a significant economic advantage, and that kind of planning comes from within the military, which is insulated from electoral cycles. russia seeks economic independence from the US, and the US will (because it must) try to prevent this by "beating" the russians to space.

restarting the space race is probably the greatest thing putin could have ever done. and if obama responds correctly, both obama and putin will be remembered for centuries as being among the greatest leaders of all time.

its the kind of thing that could make history forget how badly obama has fucked everything else up. if he wants to leave a good legacy, it is his only option (aside from ending the spying, and getting rid of the patriot act, but he wont do either)


Mon May 19, 2014 10:06 am
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Post Re: the new space race
Oh, please. The Chinese will dominate the soon to come space race. They easily have the resources to build a space elevator, and it is known that whichever country builds the first space elevator is bound to be the one to completely dominate all space exploration and exploitation. Would reduce the current costs ten fold, and would not cost anywhere close to what China currently spends on infrastructure (which amounts to almost half the country's GDP). You see, modern money mechanics teaches that countries do not have to raise money to spend it. Taxes are only meant to destroy money from the economy, so that the government can spend in the economy as well (by 'raising' money to spend), providing merit and public goods, without the supply of money increasing too much to cause serious inflation. As such, even Romania would have the resources to build a space elevator (the technology is already available) if it were to go on a spending spree and instate price controls.
Either way, companies like Planetary Resources are already springing up, so whether or not governments will start competing once again for influence in the orbit, we are bound to enter a space era. Drones that could mine gold and platinum off of asteroids orbiting the Earth are cheaper than so many cars available today. In time, they will become even cheaper. Likewise, rejuvenation is almost made possible, so sci fi really just is not sci fi anymore anyway.
As such, let us all rejoice at the fact that if the Western powers don't grow too envious of China and Russia, we will soon enter humanity's first true golden age. Commodities would no longer be scarce, most prices would be horribly deflated (that is if Russia/China or some state not controlled by corporations will take over mining operations), and rejuvenation will be made possible. People being able to live forever would also reduce their incentive to have children, so the global population might actually stabilize, etc, etc.
We have a bright future ahead of us, and I hope that the current threat posed by Russia and China only increases in time, forcing the US to once again become competitive as a government, with the two power blocs once again resorting to a policy of 'be effective or fall behind the others', which would increase efficiency in everything. Atm, the US corporations leading the country are pretty half assed, as there is no longer a huge anti-private-business power bloc on the face of the earth, so the US has fallen in disrepair as the corporations line their pockets.(during the cold war is when the US was thriving, as the government had to keep its population content and its economy to forge on)

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Tue May 20, 2014 5:48 pm
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Post Re: the new space race
cost is irrelevant when you're turning a profit.

the main expense is relocating asteroids to earth's orbit so they can be mined, the first nation to achieve that will have almost absolute dominance. NASA is already planning to do this, because moving the asteroid will be called an "investment" in extraction which gives them the legal right to mine the whole thing without having to share it.

if they mined it in-situ without changing its orbit, other countries could, under current space treaties, demand a share of the resources gained through that mining.

plus, if you can capture an asteroid in the earth's orbit, you can also drop that asteroid onto any city you want, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop you (unlike with nukes, which can be intercepted)

NASA focusing on capturing an asteroid rather than focusing on going to mars is a brilliant strategic move, and it wont be long before everyone else tries to "catch up"


Sun May 25, 2014 3:33 am
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Post Re: the new space race
Suppose they capture an asteroid with 10 km diameter (big enough to cause mass extinctions if it hit the earth at a good clip). That entails roughly about 500 cubic km of material, or less than 50x50 km patch of earth that's 250m deep. This doesn't strike me as particularly lucrative unless you are saying that certain elements are much much more prevalent in asteroids than they are in the Earth's crust.

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Sun May 25, 2014 9:08 am
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Post Re: the new space race
It'd be at least a thousand year's worth of iron. (assuming the entire thing is made of iron) The cost of shipping back and worth would be enormous, but it'd be possible to deorbit it. Wherever it hits becomes an amazing iron mine. Of course, the main benefit would be reduced cost to mine it, since you don't need to dig a huge amount of dirt to get at it.

Would definitely be useful as far as building space stations goes, but steel isn't exactly expensive on earth, but it'd be an idea, if china ever decided it didn't want to share it's iron anymore. The United States doesn't exactly mine a large amount compared to China; the ore deposits are pretty much gone. Most the mines in the United States require huge amounts of rock to get any metal. They're basically mined out; it's just the advanced refining technology that keeps them going.

At this point, they'll mine copper-rich dirt. (no idea how much copper an asteroid has)

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Sun May 25, 2014 3:04 pm
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Post Re: the new space race
Don't forget we would need to build orbital refineries and factories to actually manufacture any parts that would be required for orbital construction projects. The cost of putting something that big in space would be pretty insane by current standards.

You make a good point that you don't have to fight gravity when mining in orbit, but that doesn't mean it would be a cakewalk either. We are talking about a rather large amount of energy required to even just extract metal from an asteroid, probably more than can be provided from solar (and don't get me started on the refineries and factories). That means we are potentially talking about putting fossil fuels into orbit just to power the whole undertaking.

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Sun May 25, 2014 3:33 pm
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Post Re: the new space race
Mining shit in space to bring back to earth is probably not a very profitable proposition, but mining shit in space to use in space may be the only route to a sustainable human presence outside Earth's gravity well.

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Sun May 25, 2014 10:14 pm
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Post Re: the new space race
Zekk wrote:
Mining shit in space to bring back to earth is probably not a very profitable proposition, but mining shit in space to use in space may be the only route to a sustainable human presence outside Earth's gravity well.


Indeed, but I was just pointing out that the infrastructure required would be pretty massive, i.e. most likely centuries distant as opposed to years or decades.

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Mon May 26, 2014 4:27 am
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Post Re: the new space race
anilv wrote:
Suppose they capture an asteroid with 10 km diameter (big enough to cause mass extinctions if it hit the earth at a good clip). That entails roughly about 500 cubic km of material, or less than 50x50 km patch of earth that's 250m deep. This doesn't strike me as particularly lucrative unless you are saying that certain elements are much much more prevalent in asteroids than they are in the Earth's crust.


concentrations of valuable elements in asteroids are much, much higher than in the earth's crust.

a standard 10km asteroid contains more rare metals (platinum, gold, neodymium, etc) than are left in all the accessible natural deposits on earth.

the cheapest way to extract those minerals would be to cut it into peices and launch lightweight collapsible "re-entry vehicles" so the peices can be de-orbited, and do the refining on earth. the profits from this will cover the costs of building orbital refining facillities, which will make it possible to build much bigger spacecraft in orbit.


Mon May 26, 2014 5:06 am
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Post Re: the new space race
http://www.planetaryresources.com/

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Wed May 28, 2014 7:40 am
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Post Re: the new space race
http://www.iflscience.com/space/250-mil ... -next-year

the USA responds

the race is on.


Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:15 pm
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Post Re: the new space race
landswimmer wrote:
http://www.iflscience.com/space/250-million-increase-nasa%E2%80%99s-budget-next-year

the USA responds

the race is on.


Perfect! Now, for rejuvenation! Availability of affordable rejuvenation would be the only thing to make me willing to live in all these soft-communist countries such as the Scandinavian ones and Britain. No real need for money if you have all the time in the world, so rejuvenation could lead to the formation of an utopia on Earth.

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Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:32 pm
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