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Post NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... pace-drive

i wonder if anyone will remember saying "MUH CONSERVATION OF MOMENTUM!" last time i posted about the EMdrive...


Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:27 pm
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
OP pls nerf

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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
yeah well space exploration can wait anyway, i wanna see them colonize mars first before i get too enthusiastic about anything else


Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:06 pm
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
Patch Notes of Life (8/1/2014):

Fixed bug in Quantum Foam allowing force to be created without use of matter. We will not be compensating the players which have built devices based off this bug.

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Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:07 pm
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
Going through his theory paper, he assumes somewhere that `the beam [microwaves] travel at a velocity v_g`, where supposedly v_g is smaller than c. His generated thrust is based off this. Anyhow, this statement seems like complete bogus to me, if you want to respect the theory of relativity. There is however one way to achieve this;

If you would make some kind of periodic structure (i.e. photonic crystal) you could in theory make the wavelength be different at the start and end parts of the cavity. The 'thrust' you would supposedly generate would be lost because you'll have absorption in this periodic structure. (More going from one side to the other than the other way around, as your wave is constantly being tailored to the structure and longer wavelengths carry less energy). This kind of design would not allow any kind of 'tunable operation' either.

The experimental results suggest some kind of thrust generated by this engine, which could be due to heating, leakage of radiation or inaccurate measurements (although the latter may be doubted).

I'd like to point out that CERN concluded a few years ago that they detected neutrinos which travelled faster than light.

Just my 2 cents. Quite possibly all wrong.

Edit: Just done some reading up on how this supposedly uses virtual particles generated from quantum fluctuations, I remain sceptical however. If it works, it's probably not because of what is said in the EMDrive theory article :P

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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
I read somewhere that it could be creating thrust because of the interaction with Earth's magnetic field. They specifically designed a control whereby the engine should NOT have worked, and it generated thrust anyway.

That's a failure.

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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
It's really the Ex-Mother-in-law drive.

Tom, "Hey Joe your ex mother-in-law is on the phone for you."

Joe departs the Sol system post haste, using pinto beans to power his spaceship.

Tom, "Phil you bet me $5 that I couldn't get him out of the bar. Time to put your money where your mouth is."

Phil, "So who was on the phone?"

Tom, "My wife Cathy."

Phil, "Isn't she Joe's ex mother-in-lay?"

Tom, "Yeah, but I don't like to talk about it."


Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:02 am
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
MasterTrader wrote:
I read somewhere that it could be creating thrust because of the interaction with Earth's magnetic field. They specifically designed a control whereby the engine should NOT have worked, and it generated thrust anyway.

That's a failure.


i think they should get it over with, and build a low weight version they can launch into space with a cheap rocket, to see if it works, and to put the debate to rest once and for all.


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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
yfw physics books must be rewritten to include this act of god

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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
realistically, theres only a remote possibility that this is real, its a longshot BUT...

the engine's inventor insists that with a superconducting resonating cavity, like the ones at the LHC, a 50 kg engine could produce several tons of lifting force with the same efficiency as modern ion engines

if it works, ships can have engines at regular intervals throughout their entire internal structure, able to push the ship in any direction, with minimal stress on the internal structural supports.

the only limitations to ship size would be the ship's own gravitational field, and its power supply.

we could build thousand-kilometer long "death star" type ships, capable of reaching the closest stars within a few decades.

we could build a million kilometer wide solar collector ring in orbit around the sun, and access enough power to change the orbits of planets to make them more habitable. venus could be moved further from the sun, and mars could be moved into orbit around it to act as a moon)

energy would cease to be a limiting factor, and with robotic labor we could be building self sustaining orbital cities that we can send to other stars to colonise and explore.

we could colonise the entire galaxy in only a few hundred thousand years. FTL travel capability would not be neccesary.


Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:10 am
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
landswimmer wrote:
cheap rocket


Lawl.

Quote:
Today, it costs $10,000 to put a pound of payload in Earth orbit.

Source: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/ne ... ml_prt.htm


Nah breh, its way cheaper to figure out if the damn thing actually works the way it says it works on Earth than to spend money and time designing an experiment to send into space.

You can't just send the device itself into space and expect results, you have to send personnel and equipment dedicated to operating and monitoring the device.

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Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:32 pm
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
landswimmer wrote:
realistically, theres only a remote possibility that this is real, its a longshot BUT...

the engine's inventor insists that with a superconducting resonating cavity, like the ones at the LHC, a 50 kg engine could produce several tons of lifting force with the same efficiency as modern ion engines

if it works, ships can have engines at regular intervals throughout their entire internal structure, able to push the ship in any direction, with minimal stress on the internal structural supports.

the only limitations to ship size would be the ship's own gravitational field, and its power supply.

we could build thousand-kilometer long "death star" type ships, capable of reaching the closest stars within a few decades.

we could build a million kilometer wide solar collector ring in orbit around the sun, and access enough power to change the orbits of planets to make them more habitable. venus could be moved further from the sun, and mars could be moved into orbit around it to act as a moon)

energy would cease to be a limiting factor, and with robotic labor we could be building self sustaining orbital cities that we can send to other stars to colonise and explore.

we could colonise the entire galaxy in only a few hundred thousand years. FTL travel capability would not be neccesary.


Where are we going to get all that metal from?

And before you say asteroids, you've still got the problem of not quite understanding how long term exposure to space affects human beings...

Do you really want to send people to their possible, and probable, deaths for metals and materials with no forewarning about what could happen?

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Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:34 pm
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
MasterTrader wrote:
landswimmer wrote:
realistically, theres only a remote possibility that this is real, its a longshot BUT...

the engine's inventor insists that with a superconducting resonating cavity, like the ones at the LHC, a 50 kg engine could produce several tons of lifting force with the same efficiency as modern ion engines

if it works, ships can have engines at regular intervals throughout their entire internal structure, able to push the ship in any direction, with minimal stress on the internal structural supports.

the only limitations to ship size would be the ship's own gravitational field, and its power supply.

we could build thousand-kilometer long "death star" type ships, capable of reaching the closest stars within a few decades.

we could build a million kilometer wide solar collector ring in orbit around the sun, and access enough power to change the orbits of planets to make them more habitable. venus could be moved further from the sun, and mars could be moved into orbit around it to act as a moon)

energy would cease to be a limiting factor, and with robotic labor we could be building self sustaining orbital cities that we can send to other stars to colonise and explore.

we could colonise the entire galaxy in only a few hundred thousand years. FTL travel capability would not be neccesary.


Where are we going to get all that metal from?

And before you say asteroids, you've still got the problem of not quite understanding how long term exposure to space affects human beings...

Do you really want to send people to their possible, and probable, deaths for metals and materials with no forewarning about what could happen?

StarCraft already gave us the answer to this. Why use up prison space on Earth when you can just send convicts out to mine asteroids?

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Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:58 pm
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
MasterTrader wrote:
landswimmer wrote:
cheap rocket


Lawl.


cheap rockets as in SpaceX's falcon 9. the payload required is so small, the test could be piggybacked to the ISS on one of the regularly sent supply runs, and tested on the ISS. rather than measuring the force, the engine can be attatched to the ISS and set to counteract the ISS's orbital decay

if the orbital decay is reduced, the test can be considered successful.

if orbital decay isnt reduced, then we know 100% that the engine doesnt work.

no ground testing will ever give us 100% certainty.

it requires no special testing equipment, just a power source and some astronauts to monitor and run it, and all of those things are already on the ISS.

i appreciate that you feel the need to add your opinion, but if you're going to be arrogant about, dont bother.

MasterTrader wrote:

Nah breh, its way cheaper to figure out if the damn thing actually works the way it says it works on Earth than to spend money and time designing an experiment to send into space.


actually, no, because they're just going to keep running tests on the ground, and EVERY FUCKING TIME, the naysayers will ignore it, and justify their ignorance with "its because of something else!"

the theory behind the device is shaky, and isolating the source of the interference will be next-to-impossible. a space-based test will eventually be done, so why not save money and do the space based test first?

MasterTrader wrote:
You can't just send the device itself into space and expect results, you have to send personnel and equipment dedicated to operating and monitoring the device.


you're overcomplicating things, the ISS is the perfect test environment, and the cost to piggyback the test on an ISS supply run would be minimal in comparison to the running costs of the ISS.

MasterTrader wrote:
Where are we going to get all that metal from?


moons, asteroids, etc.

MasterTrader wrote:
And before you say asteroids, you've still got the problem of not quite understanding how long term exposure to space affects human beings...

Do you really want to send people to their possible, and probable, deaths for metals and materials with no forewarning about what could happen?


LAWL

robot labor. how the fuck did you not already know that?

i mean seriously, you seem like a reasonably intelligent human being, did you just have a brainfart or do you have an explanation for this completely absurd assumption that human labor would be used?

and yeah, i AM gonna push that angle, when i said cheap rocket, i meant cheap in relation to other rockets, and you responded like an asshole. if you dont want arrogant, belittling responses, dont give them in the first place.


Last edited by landswimmer on Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:43 pm
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Post Re: NASA validates "impossible" EMdrive
I see there's no need to continue this conversation

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