Does this mean that war mongering will be immediate then, or will there still be a delay??

I realized that after I posted... Shhh =P Wasn't thinking clearly, I'd just gotten off work... It takes my brain a while to warm up after washing dishes nonstop for 10 hours =D

I don't know about anyone else but I understand what this formula does to the base level and I am guessing that most people feel that this formula is far less broken then the current system.

Looking it a second time, I'm an EE user. Its often economic sense to make extraction bases adonis (the real pro's use tec 3s ) - the way this is set up, they're now (ironically) going to be even more vulnerable, and not covered by any big defence bases I set up to protect them.



Suggestion:


Base levels in a system are either a) set to all the same level if the system is Protected (bad idea, protecting stops levelling enough already) or there be a base option to set them the same level range (from lower to higher only).

e.g. I have 5 adonis extraction bases, and 2 andaman and 1 achilles protectors. I can set the adonis ones I own to the same level range as the Achilles if I want.


Also, it'd be really nice if the test server ran these changes first so we could all hammer through the kinks and spot exploits before it cost people "real" cash. Please?

Didnt we already establish that seperating a players base from his personal level is just moivng the greif onto the base builders?

Bad idea Jeff, Its open pvp on base builders more or less.

Also what about XYZ gear? Adonis Z is almost as good as anda, and what about people who mix techs? A tech 16 base might not have tech 16 gear in it etc..

Unless you going to double the strength of bases they'll be a lot of undefendable galaxies out there.

I cant see the benifit of this for anyone except the ones who want to go round wiping peoples galaxies for no good reason, which is why we had this level protection in the 1st place.

Also with the formulas, you're assuming that mastery makes this more powerful by a cubed factor, which it doesnt.

Not to mention the fact bases that are built by the same owner with different tech in the same galaxy wont defend each other.

~ferret

If this change is put in, I'm going to make a level 91 on the dot alt and go around killing every single newbie adonis base I can get my hands on by myself until people see how broken this is going to be for the newer players. Heck, because I might feel bad (not really, but I might do it anyways cause I'm nice) I might actually pay the owners of those bases some form of restitutions. Next, once I've proven that, I'll go to level 144 and kill a tonne of argo bases which are just as easy for the level.

This formula is a hugely bad idea for all parties affected (which is pretty much every player in the game) and will absolutely pulverize low level base builders.

And Convial, thats 1) because most people do not show any insightful thought and just see "min base lvls! OOOHHH! YES!" and don't actually investigate the actual EFFECT of the formula behind it. and 2) because most of the people who bitch and complain are high levels who will only be thinking about this from their own perspective and not from the first character level 25-200 who get all their bases pwned every time they build one. Try to see this through someone else's eyes, the non-hardcore gamer, and you'll see it is a bad formula for every reason immagineable.

Traders have already proved that you can make Argonaut bases at level 20 with a bit of "creative use" of the station upgrades. If they'd had their act together, and shoved 4 argon base augs (2 range, 2 firing) on it, they'd have been able to wipe out the Dead Eagles. That they didn't just shows you something.

I'm aware of the situation, Whispers was made to prove the point, a long time ago, when Achilles bases weren't common at all (read - 2-5 in the entire universe).

Likewise, I'm not pro-griefing at all - I've wiped out precisely two bases in my play time. I'm also aware that certain people can, and do, already make uber alts that could "own" any normal player's set-up - this was a problem when I first arrived (level 20's mass-griefing in F-wings) and no doubt certain members are waiting to prove just how "l337" they are when they wipe out teams because they're virtually invincible at that level when these new ranges are introduced. PvP in StarSonata has never been about "real" (i.e. matched / skill) PvP, its always been about griefing style turkey shoots. This is largely due to the beta test hardcore mode (losing your ship when you died, and levels apparently) and the type of player it attracted - who still lurk around, and enjoy easy pickings. They don't enjoy "real" PvP as this might involve loosing - I've watched them run out of the colluseum when they're loosing, but call team-mates to come pod you in there when you die. That's not PvP, that's spoilt brat mode.

This is one of the reasons SS hasn't grown as it should, imo - the differential between the older players and newer players has always been so fundamentally flawed (Low level P20 ships are a perfect example of this - take them out of game, already, especially if you're introducing raised levels. The gap is simply unfair, and will get used to drive off any team who hasn't enjoyed the previous opportunities. Yes its "real" pvp to sit there in a tec 10 ship whilst someone uses a Reaver to kill you. Really skillful PvP there ) - I've watched people leave time and time again due to it. Tobal, Rorix (I) or Scoundrel gets bored and "pwns" some "nooobies" without them having a chance to fight back - which just leads to people quitting. Uber level 20 alts still exist, and still "pwn" new level 20's with ease. Some people don't mind hard-core PvP; what they do mind is utterly hopelessly one sided PvP. Which we currently have.

To put this in context: PvP in this game should include constant use of tweaks, anti-grav fields and so on - in reality, that doesn't happen at all. AT4 & 5 is also a massive advantage - great idea... but when players are routinely sold off with broken levels in it, it gets a bit meaningless. Do I play up a char from scratch, or buy one with AT 6? Gee.. I wonder if the newcomer could stand against that. No. Reason # 4 why account selling is such a bad idea - AT should only be on accounts whilst they're played by the people who did the emp runs.

However, the entire PvP and PvB system needs an over-haul. If we want PvP in, in any meaningful way, then it needs looking at. At the moment, the exploits / loopholes mean 100% unfair advantage to older players - always has done. So new ideas have to be at least tried.


I'd say put this idea on the test server, then everyone there go to war - and see what the carnage is like.

Why the hell do you like to start shit for no reason?

Name 1 person who left because I "pwned" them.

Tobal? *innocent look*

hmm how about we go back to the old way of pvp just remove the ability to mark players enemy.

Doesn't address the #1 broken part of PvB at the moment - inability to touch healers.

easy just have the people who heal a person giving dmg to the base gain hate in regards to the amount they are healing.


also on a side note if anyone here decides to get into a flame war with other people in any of the devel threads all your posts in this part will be deleted.

Yes, that's what I suggested - thankyou for the vote of confidence in the idea.

http://www.starsonata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11375

Part of the old problem was the automatic team enemy and base marking, remove those 2 things from the old system and it'd be fine.

The healer thing is broken now because of people not being able to mark enemy, healers are broken IMO anyway in the way that they are at the moment, certainly.

~ferret

Tobal got banned because I frapsed him exploiting. *innocent look*