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Main: ShawnMcCall
Level: 2589 Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:42 am Posts: 1932 |
anilv wrote: redalert150 wrote: I mean it can't be that hard to manually exclude ago ai only stuff can it? Either way i don't think it's such a huge deal that players will know what damage type to bring and vollies just saves time in my opinion. And if you're that player that enjoys going in blind then by all means don't read wiki or whatever. Think of it from our perspective. What are we gaining by doing this when we could be spending our time on something else? A successful feature used in other games that could help draw and retain players by advertising options... |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:53 pm |
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over 9000!
Main: enkelin
Level: 5600 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm Posts: 11109 |
Advertising what exactly? I don't see a lot of people signing up for a game purely on the basis of a particularly well updated wiki.
_________________ Hi, I'm Anil, a long-time player turned developer. I am Star Sonata's lead content developer, which means that I run weekly dev meetings and make sure that any proposed changes to the game receive proper review before going live. http://www.starsonata.com/features |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:54 pm |
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Main: ShawnMcCall
Level: 2589 Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:42 am Posts: 1932 |
anilv wrote: Advertising what exactly? I don't see a lot of people signing up for a game purely on the basis of a particularly well updated wiki. No but I have quit SS numerous times to go back to WoW based on the WoW armory. That's not what this is about though tbh. If you change some shit take the 30 seconds to update it if it's something already on the wiki. |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:58 pm |
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Main: ShawnMcCall
Level: 2589 Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:42 am Posts: 1932 |
Or shit, send me the updated stats and I'll fucking do it. But don't tell me to go hunt down obscure low level gear to update something that you changed. You're creating confusion and making the wiki less reliable with every patch.
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Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:01 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Officer Main: ZGMF Level: 5995 Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:02 pm Posts: 598 |
"+ Adjusted some of the lower tech drones (Venusian, Mercurian, Solarian, some of the DG dropped Tech 21 and Tech 22 drones)."
"* Improved Hephaestus Drone. Samgrahaka Akramavar, Indrakoza Akramavar and Indrakoza Amzuchidvar drones have also been substantially improved as well." I would also like to point out the Mythic Defender drone, imo its pretty weak as a t22 drone a little more beef to it would be nice, its dps isnt even on par with t20 drone like bmbd4 or mobile mag IX drone, it feels like alpha drone damage which is like t18. tho i still use the drone cuz it looks fun, launching tiny paxies XD _________________ I started questioning what I'm doing with my life. I can't seem to calm down. I wonder why... |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:20 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: 1-800-USE_THE_FORCE! Level: 9597 Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:36 pm Posts: 2769 |
anilv wrote: redalert150 wrote: I mean it can't be that hard to manually exclude ago ai only stuff can it? Either way i don't think it's such a huge deal that players will know what damage type to bring and vollies just saves time in my opinion. And if you're that player that enjoys going in blind then by all means don't read wiki or whatever. Think of it from our perspective. What are we gaining by doing this when we could be spending our time on something else? Yea by no means am i saying prioritize this over a lot of things. But this would be pretty great if the game wiki was a reliable source to send new and old players looking for information. I have no idea how it would work but would be cool to add something like Jey was saying that auto updates itself or something? Worst case scenario couldnt you task one of the devs not doing much with updating wiki every so often? I mean you guys do have access to sheets that have all of the gear in game right? _________________ "I still miss the Crack Whores..." - Jeff_L |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:25 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: 1-800-USE_THE_FORCE! Level: 9597 Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:36 pm Posts: 2769 |
ShawnMcCall wrote: You're creating confusion and making the wiki less reliable with every patch. This is basically the biggest issue, apart from how convenient having a reliable source of gear stats is. _________________ "I still miss the Crack Whores..." - Jeff_L |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:27 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Soldier Main: Fleet General Level: 3378 Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:50 am Posts: 341 Location: Straya |
anilv wrote: Do you know any commercially successful game in the entire market that has complete transparency of all content dev documents? Pause and think for a second about why that isn't a thing. EVE does, ever since a member of their dev team was found to be spawning items for corp / alliance members and exploiting his knowledge of mechanics (Gee, who does that sound like?), they have hosted fourteen delegates of the community to come to their offices and see exactly what they're working on and discuss the future of the game with the developers. Coincidentally they're meeting now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgOi6vDSct4 I somewhat agree with Jey in that discovery is a rewarding experience, but honestly 9 times out of 10, the new discovery is leagues worse than anything you already have, because you didn't know about it when it was relevant to you. Swabbies gear for example is something you could go from level 1 to 1,000 without ever knowing it existed, or the special energies like Whiskey Outpost's or Hot Goods, unless you stumble upon it or it's mentioned by someone else you're not going to know that it exists. EDIT: Also, considering you guys went out of your way to rename Slaves as Bots and Crack Whores as Entertainers in an attempt to appear more professional, a wiki hosted on the game's website that isn't current is pretty fucking dodgy looking. Honestly in my opinion the front page of the site looks dodgy enough already, with shit just scattered across it and an overly eager download button, it's not a very professional site for a game that has been running for 12 years. |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:59 pm |
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Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: 1-800-USE_THE_FORCE! Level: 9597 Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:36 pm Posts: 2769 |
Zeuss wrote: anilv wrote: Do you know any commercially successful game in the entire market that has complete transparency of all content dev documents? Pause and think for a second about why that isn't a thing. EVE does, ever since a member of their dev team was found to be spawning items for corp / alliance members and exploiting his knowledge of mechanics (Gee, who does that sound like?), they have hosted fourteen delegates of the community to come to their offices and see exactly what they're working on and discuss the future of the game with the developers. Coincidentally they're meeting now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgOi6vDSct4 I somewhat agree with Jey in that discovery is a rewarding experience, but honestly 9 times out of 10, the new discovery is leagues worse than anything you already have, because you didn't know about it when it was relevant to you. Swabbies gear for example is something you could go from level 1 to 1,000 without ever knowing it existed, or the special energies like Whiskey Outpost's or Hot Goods, unless you stumble upon it or it's mentioned by someone else you're not going to know that it exists. EDIT: Also, considering you guys went out of your way to rename Slaves as Bots and Crack Whores as Entertainers in an attempt to appear more professional, a wiki hosted on the game's website that isn't current is pretty fucking dodgy looking. Honestly in my opinion the front page of the site looks dodgy enough already, with shit just scattered across it and an overly eager download button, it's not a very professional site for a game that has been running for 12 years. Still wayyy up in thermals ass i see. _________________ "I still miss the Crack Whores..." - Jeff_L |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:15 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4933 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
riel017 wrote: "+ Adjusted some of the lower tech drones (Venusian, Mercurian, Solarian, some of the DG dropped Tech 21 and Tech 22 drones)." "* Improved Hephaestus Drone. Samgrahaka Akramavar, Indrakoza Akramavar and Indrakoza Amzuchidvar drones have also been substantially improved as well." I would also like to point out the Mythic Defender drone, imo its pretty weak as a t22 drone a little more beef to it would be nice, its dps isnt even on par with t20 drone like bmbd4 or mobile mag IX drone, it feels like alpha drone damage which is like t18. tho i still use the drone cuz it looks fun, launching tiny paxies XD I intend on going over the drones at some point in time with Pixel, thank you for pointing that out. _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:18 pm |
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Dev Team
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Jey123456 Level: 4359 Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:51 pm Posts: 3366 Location: who knows ? |
redalert150 wrote: I mean it can't be that hard to manually exclude ago ai only stuff can it? Either way i don't think it's such a huge deal that players will know what damage type to bring and vollies just saves time in my opinion. And if you're that player that enjoys going in blind then by all means don't read wiki or whatever. actually it is rather hard. Far from impossible mind you, if we spent a few dozen hours working on a system to spit the stats of only items that should be known, im sure we could do it. But its definitely not something that me or anyone can whip up in between 2 projects. _________________ One of the first and proud flight controller. Visit our website: http://www.ef-team.com |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:49 pm |
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Dev Team
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Jey123456 Level: 4359 Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:51 pm Posts: 3366 Location: who knows ? |
redalert150 wrote: anilv wrote: redalert150 wrote: I mean it can't be that hard to manually exclude ago ai only stuff can it? Either way i don't think it's such a huge deal that players will know what damage type to bring and vollies just saves time in my opinion. And if you're that player that enjoys going in blind then by all means don't read wiki or whatever. Think of it from our perspective. What are we gaining by doing this when we could be spending our time on something else? Yea by no means am i saying prioritize this over a lot of things. But this would be pretty great if the game wiki was a reliable source to send new and old players looking for information. I have no idea how it would work but would be cool to add something like Jey was saying that auto updates itself or something? Worst case scenario couldnt you task one of the devs not doing much with updating wiki every so often? I mean you guys do have access to sheets that have all of the gear in game right? Yes dev have access to "sheets" (most are in xml format) that contain all the items. But they cannot update the wiki on a change before it makes it into a patch which often is a few weeks to a month after the change is done, and doing them all at once when there is a patch essentially boil down to comparing 15820 items. Yes we have logs of changes, but not always on which item was changed, not without looking at every single diffs noting what was changed, then taking those notes and updating the wiki with them. _________________ One of the first and proud flight controller. Visit our website: http://www.ef-team.com |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:06 pm |
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Main: ShawnMcCall
Level: 2589 Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:42 am Posts: 1932 |
Jey123456 wrote: Yes dev have access to "sheets" (most are in xml format) that contain all the items. But they cannot update the wiki on a change before it makes it into a patch which often is a few weeks to a month after the change is done, and doing them all at once when there is a patch essentially boil down to comparing 15820 items. Yes we have logs of changes, but not always on which item was changed, not without looking at every single diffs noting what was changed, then taking those notes and updating the wiki with them. Easy day then, post the new stats for every item changed in the patch notes. I said just a few posts ago, if you're not going to do it yourselves, then at least give us the stats to fix it if it's already available. I can update them just as fast as you guys can, however if you expect players to go searching for each item you change whether they have it in inventory or they have go do a mission to get it, then the *OFFICIAL* wiki, because it became official the moment it became hosted by the same people who develop and release the game, is going to continue to be trash. I mean shit, Danger already posted all the new stats and old stats for the t21 HF changes and that shit is probably months away. Give us that for every change you make, if you are changing something that the playerbase already knows then tell us what the change is and let us fix it, if you guys are unwilling to. |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:19 pm |
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Dev Team
Team:
Rank: Officer Main: Jey123456 Level: 4359 Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:51 pm Posts: 3366 Location: who knows ? |
ShawnMcCall wrote: Jey123456 wrote: Yes dev have access to "sheets" (most are in xml format) that contain all the items. But they cannot update the wiki on a change before it makes it into a patch which often is a few weeks to a month after the change is done, and doing them all at once when there is a patch essentially boil down to comparing 15820 items. Yes we have logs of changes, but not always on which item was changed, not without looking at every single diffs noting what was changed, then taking those notes and updating the wiki with them. Easy day then, post the new stats for every item changed in the patch notes. I said just a few posts ago, if you're not going to do it yourselves, then at least give us the stats to fix it if it's already available. I can update them just as fast as you guys can, however if you expect players to go searching for each item you change whether they have it in inventory or they have go do a mission to get it, then the *OFFICIAL* wiki, because it became official the moment it became hosted by the same people who develop and release the game, is going to continue to be trash. I mean shit, Danger already posted all the new stats and old stats for the t21 HF changes and that shit is probably months away. Give us that for every change you make, if you are changing something that the playerbase already knows then tell us what the change is and let us fix it, if you guys are unwilling to. Or we could you know, just drop the wiki and let someone else pay for and manage it. We are merely ensuring that any work you do on the wiki isn't lost tomorrow because the current owner isnt feeling like keeping it around anymore. Its a wiki not a database, it will never be autofed. I know i wont spend the hours needed for each patch to go through every single commit extract stats changes just to post them, i have enough on my plate with making sure the patch are stable and applied properly. As i said, if we ever make a priority of setting up an automatically updated stat source kind of thing, its going to be a separate thing on the website grabbing the infos from a database provided by the live server (which is the only way we have to automatically know if an item is ok to be in player hands, or if an item is still unknown / ai only). Thats not currently a priority, there are hundreds of things we need to fix and improve before that. _________________ One of the first and proud flight controller. Visit our website: http://www.ef-team.com |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:35 pm |
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Contributor
Team:
Rank: Councilor Main: Hober Mallow Level: 4933 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Posts: 3191 |
ShawnMcCall wrote: Jey123456 wrote: Yes dev have access to "sheets" (most are in xml format) that contain all the items. But they cannot update the wiki on a change before it makes it into a patch which often is a few weeks to a month after the change is done, and doing them all at once when there is a patch essentially boil down to comparing 15820 items. Yes we have logs of changes, but not always on which item was changed, not without looking at every single diffs noting what was changed, then taking those notes and updating the wiki with them. Easy day then, post the new stats for every item changed in the patch notes. I said just a few posts ago, if you're not going to do it yourselves, then at least give us the stats to fix it if it's already available. I can update them just as fast as you guys can, however if you expect players to go searching for each item you change whether they have it in inventory or they have go do a mission to get it, then the *OFFICIAL* wiki, because it became official the moment it became hosted by the same people who develop and release the game, is going to continue to be trash. I mean shit, Danger already posted all the new stats and old stats for the t21 HF changes and that shit is probably months away. Give us that for every change you make, if you are changing something that the playerbase already knows then tell us what the change is and let us fix it, if you guys are unwilling to. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png _________________ http://www.starsonata.com/suggestions |
Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:38 pm |
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