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Which class do you think you would choose if you had to choose now?
Sniper 20%  20%  [ 38 ]
Berserker 10%  10%  [ 18 ]
Speed Demon 17%  17%  [ 31 ]
Seer 5%  5%  [ 9 ]
Engineer 20%  20%  [ 37 ]
Shield Monkey 9%  9%  [ 16 ]
Gunner 10%  10%  [ 19 ]
Fleet Commander 10%  10%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 187

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These changes look incredibly exciting, and I greatly look forward to them. One thing I do ask though.....Will there be an augmenter reset? I would greatly love to try out one or more of the other classes, but I don't think my current ships would be suitable (I think many people have this situation....) Perhaps 1 reset per character? Something so that there isnt just a huge flood of cheap augs? But rather a way in which people are able to re-aug their main ship to suit their new chosen class.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:17 pm
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JeffL wrote:
Except for sniper, the aim to is make a char with about 1.5 to 2 maxed sub-skills about equal to the current system and then anything over that is more power. I think you will agree that fully maxed out, almost every class is a significant improvement over the current classes.

Since sniper is so obviously overpowered now, we are trying to be careful with it here. We can always improve it later. Better that than making it too powerful now and having to nerf it when everyone just chooses sniper again.

As for skill points, we will be offering free skill resets for a limited time after the skills go in, and class-specific augs will be made non-sticky so that they can be unequipped.


1.5 to 2 maxed subskills.

Taking your 1.5 as the standard, that would be the equivalent of 70 skill ranks, no? 20 for, say, Combat, 20 for Sniper, 20 For Stalking, 10 in Efficiency. that would be 1.5 maxed subskills... equivalent of skills 1-70, or 71x35, 2485 Skill Points.

In any event, I need to get leveling.. fast! :shock:

As for sniper.. well, it'll be a pale shadow of its former self, in any event. If your balancing content around current snipers, which are too good... and then making snipers less good (Im fine with less good).. consider what impact that has on your content.

Im a lvl 600 some-odd in a porp, sniper, killing BGs. With your changes, can I kill BGs? Math seems to say no...

However, in light of Gunner... speak to us about capships? Is this going to be a P20 hobby? Are Capships going to be huge? Or does capship just mean 'weaponized freighter'.. a large displacement, clumsy-ish vessel with big guns?

I suppose, given the above and in light of 'fighter bays', most of the things we call 'light fighters' and 'heavy fighters' are rather more Destroyers and Cruisers...


Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:26 pm
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JeffL wrote:
class-specific augs will be made non-sticky so that they can be unequipped.


hm don't you think every aug should be made sticky, not only the spec ones?
since some skills will change so drastically(DPE/speed/shieldmax/shieldregen/agility/stealth@sniper for exaple) I mean +60% elec cost is a huge change. how should we be able to use our old setups? (sup,exc,exc was was a nice setup for sniper izers before the exc nerf. Now it's at the edge to be ok for the elec cost. But when the elec cost panelty of 60% kicks in they will be crap..) And that's only one example. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has that problem.

I totally agree on nerfing the Sniper skill, but as you do so, don't let it cost us billions just to keep playing.

I just don't like the Idea to literally throw my old ships away :( I was happy to see changes done + was looking forward to it.. but without an included aug reset it's more like a pain :(
I'd like to hear some opinions on that.

regards,
MB

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Last edited by shiNm4 on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:34 pm
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RISC wrote:
JeffL wrote:
Except for sniper, the aim to is make a char with about 1.5 to 2 maxed sub-skills about equal to the current system and then anything over that is more power. I think you will agree that fully maxed out, almost every class is a significant improvement over the current classes.

Since sniper is so obviously overpowered now, we are trying to be careful with it here. We can always improve it later. Better that than making it too powerful now and having to nerf it when everyone just chooses sniper again.

As for skill points, we will be offering free skill resets for a limited time after the skills go in, and class-specific augs will be made non-sticky so that they can be unequipped.


I would think most people who have chosen sniper in this poll haven't really understood the numbers. It seems way too weak to me.

Regarding making class-specific augs non-sticky, does this mean there would be a chance of losing them if you don't have GG? Just something I'd like you to keep in mind...

-Slicer


Im thinking SD.. or maybe Zrkr, for the armor. Sniper is dead.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:50 pm
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RISC wrote:
I would think most people who have chosen sniper in this poll haven't really understood the numbers. It seems way too weak to me.

I think, one reason might be that ppl thought that the +40% elec cost are allready in and the +20% are somehow manageable.. well.. no way with +60%..

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:52 pm
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You didnt put the stats for DM in there, as long as its a 4% bonus per level than this looks great but some areas seem to need some tweaking.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:57 pm
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Well, what does it for -me- is the realization that the sniper's DPE is going to be better than the speed demons by only a handful of %. The SD will have the ability to burst FAR higher, due to their far higher RoF, as well as greater agility, etc. (Mind you, I still dont think the SD above is all that great)

The Zrkr will be slower than the sniper, and his DPE is worse than either. Hopefully the Zrkr's will be able to get things done with masses of high DPE weaponry to supply their DPS.

Also, theres the ultimate problem.. the game is currently, as far as I can tell, balanced around the implementation of sniper thats going to vanish when all of this goes in...

So, when does the world end?

Also... please-dear-god consider setting it up so that the focus and specialty are treated like 'normal' 1-20 skills. If you want to do the cross-adding-costs thingy, do it with just the subskills, so that one could, in theory, have the Focus, the Specialty, and ONE subskill at 20, at the same cost for their current 3 skills. And then aim your game balance so that Focus+Specialty+1 Subskill=Current game balance.

That way, theres room for growth, but you havent nerfed the entire player base by a few thosand skill points. :)


Last edited by marcussmythe on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:59 pm
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I just noticed the electricity cost increase on snipers, that looks like a bad idea to me

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:02 pm
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Do not make it 5050 sp please

also, why nerf the SD range?

you are now making us get up close and personal with snipers in PvP and their MD's

since we have "no" sheild bonus and since speed is only good for "running away" making us get that close to someone or a good AI (-40% range) with no sheild bonusses is CRAZY, especially if we are using a DS.

PROBLEMS
1) I dont like how SD's now have to get so close they endanger themselves jsut to get a few measly shots in as opposite snipers.
2) I dont like how we are being restricted to LF's (with lower resists) to get the full affect and whenh applied to #1, its not that spectacular.
3) I dont like everythign costing 5050 sp, thats like someone said, 1600 lvls with all the skills -.-". I have 250 sp free and im lvl 1020 atm with some skills not maxed out even.
4) With a 120% RoF increase, our el;ec wont stand a chance for decent dps, w/o a HUGE bank to sustain it.

SOLUTIONS
1) Dont make our decrease in range so harsh, Im saying this because we have to get so close w/o sheild bonusses as it is, speed does nothing in close combat with MS'.
2) Dont make the ship type difference so big, LF's are good for damage, but solo doing stuff (no free hull) and HF's are good also, I dont understand why we are being penalized for using them. same could be said for the other classes
3) Yea, please find a way to fix that (5050 ftl)
4) Possible some elec advantage, like less elec per shot, or mabey a small bank increase to help witht he RoF. People are saying how SD needs a beef anyway, these are some legit options here.

Please take my words into consideration, im not whining, im just trying to balance

P.S. And dont put a credit cost on these skills, I dont wanna imagine what a core skill at lvl 100 is going to cost. Just dont.

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Last edited by BAM5992 on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:06 pm
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I would still remain sniper. Good job Jeff, looks very balanced.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:07 pm
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crackaman wrote:
I would still remain sniper. Good job Jeff, looks very balanced.


I just cant see spending 5050 skill points to do the not-impressive things I can do currently. Ive got a decent ship, decent gear, decent augs, Im level 600, I hunt BGs and the likes of Stede Bonnet.

After this change, and assuming I gained 1000 levels.. I likely couldnt do those things anymore.

Of course, I couldnt gain the 1000 levels I would need to not be able to do the things anymore, because I wouldnt be able to kill things that give XPs.

Thought for the day... stockpile billions in cash and unspent XPs, so you may weather the coming storm.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:11 pm
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Gonna be an awesome change, I'd say. I'd go (and probably will) Engineer, Merchant with DM, great. An Engineer with huge elec regen, laying armadas while giving others energy regen will be a great support for ubers. And I think it is positive that you need like 1k levels to max out all skills. Now you can get sniper 20 at like level 200, making all chars about the same. Now you can focus on a special ability of the class you choose, maxing out the others later. Go Jeff!

edit:
I'm just imaging, fleet commanders in huge capital ships launching fighters, Gunners making the target vulnerable, engineers giving additional DPS and elec to allies while being cloaked from a seer generator. That's gonna be frikking awesome. A big Team with a nice mix of classes fighting an Uber will be awesome.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:36 pm
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I would like to see the first Class, and then major skill be just mutually exclusive 1-20s... I dont mind the sub skills being together; but I think all of them is a bit too much.

This way, being a higher lvl is still an important factor, but the skill can still be manageable w/o it.


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Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:00 pm
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Sniper will deffinetly need a buff, I for one am certain I would not be staying Sniper.

And a Global Aug Reset would be 100% required Jeff... all ships are augged towards current skill class bonuses.

Also: If the idea early on is to get the best feedback possible, letting people dive headfirst into the classes with the augs they would get back would be the perfect way to go about it. If you would not provide a global aug reset, it could take months to find all the "flavour" classes, and rich people could have been using them for months on end by that point.. a Global Aug Reset levels the playingfield.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:06 pm
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